A luxury class service for the few who matter paid for by the many who don't is what people fear. There is too much of that already, like the Medicaid system and the state school aid formula.

Remember that NYC essentially stopped funding the MTA years ago, along with the suburban counties and the state, and the agency has been told to borrow the difference and not worry about the consequences.

It all comes down to money. Once you give people $100 million, do you take it away and close down their service when it isn't enough, or up it and cut something else? We can't even restructure low ridership bus routes in this town.

First, I would like to see some fuel consumption and emissions figures for the ferries. As a sailor, it's been my experience that even the most efficient motor vessels tend to guzzle a lot more fuel than we are accustomed to using for wheeled vehicles of equivalent capacity. This is a problem not just for low-speed displacement hulls but also for the high-speed planing craft like the catamarans that most of these operators seem to use. Granted, you don't have the environmental impact associated with infrastructure build-out, but overtime these are less efficient.

If the ferry is full of passengers, the per-rider fuel and emissions might not be so bad, but if you're looking for a ride off-peak or in the middle of the night after a party you're either going to be stranded or you're going to be a big polluter. A sensible ferry fleet would need to consist of both large and small ferries, with the smaller ones operating during non-commute times such that fuel consumption and emissions could be kept to a minimum without making service so unaccommodating that riders can't count on it.

Lastly, I'm a big proponent of waterfront access and renewal, but I think we need to be careful about our waterways becoming too commercialized. Some of our waterways are treacherous enough as is. Those ferries travel at high speeds and leave humongous wakes, frightening away sailors and paddlers. It's probably a fair generalization to say that commercial captains often resent the presence of recreational boaters and will, passing at close distance, make this clear to you with their wakes. I'd also be concerned about the privatization of certain areas of our harbor, particularly near the ferry terminals and docks. Restricted areas are often created by the Coast Guard in the name of exaggerated homeland security threats, and the harbor is militarized enough already with the Coasties running around with those RIB-mounted machine guns.

All that said, I just want it to be clear that I'm a skeptic of ferry service - not a naysayer, and for some longer distance express routes ferries are probably a great way to get people out of their cars.

So you run very infrequent service, stop it seldom, run fast and straight and you will see the difference in door to door commute times. I don't know the precise route of your late night commutes. I used to work third shift in College Point and lived in Brighton Beach, last stop on the D to Last stop on the 7 plus a slow bus to College Point Blvd from Main Street Flushing. Hour and a half. Lots and lots of stops in between.

But to be honest about it -- if there had been some NIMBY group saying you could only have two and three story buildings in the area, nothing could have happened. Land use and transportation issues are totally linked.

You're so right. Even with the (admittedly modest) deal Tom and NY Water Taxi cut with the Schaefer Landing developer, his service is losing money. To make the service more attractive, the City/MTA can add on the cost of additional buses to bring people into the core of the CBD and go even further in the red.

On the other hand, the capital cost to develop a handful of ferry landings and buy ferryboats are relatively modest. Especially compared with, say, the Second Ave Subway, JFK Rail Link, etc. And the federal transit funding formula smiles favorably on ferry service, too (but the money is only available for capital spending).

By the way, I'm pro ferries. But the City has to be smart about where it makes those capital investments to minimize the operating subsidies over time.

Here's some free consulting to get them started: ferry service to the Rockaways? Probably a money pit.

that is easy!!! just look at chelsea piers for starters and consider the revenue of the damn place and how the money they could contribute to a ferry service. also, if folks could get there by ferry that would cut down on the traffic - both drunk and sober - around the bike lane and the neighborhood in general.

sure, it may not be so very convenient for all piers users, but would be helpful for many of them and others in the nabe.

There is a logical solution to try out here, which is to look to the developers of waterfront property for some of the cash to support ferry lines. This could be done in a number of ways, from a straight tax on land near the lines to granting development rights to the ferry operator.

Sorry to allow reality to intrude on what appears to be your deeply felt libertarian ideology but ferries are not and almost certainly never will be a revenue source for NYC. On a per-seat basis, ferries are the most heavily subsidized mode of public transport (moreso than libertarians' beloved private automobiles, even!). There is no conceivable way that a private operator could run ferry service in NYC without significant government subsidy. Go ask Tom Fox.

Ah yes, a bike. This thought has occurred to me recently.

The problem is the waterfront is too far from the ferry terminals in Midtown. A bus takes forever to get from E34th and the E River to 6th Avenue and 54th Street. I had suggested extending the Times Square shuttle to the E. 34th Street ferry terminal, something the City Planning Commission approval of the East River development without its inclusion will probably kill. (Though the City Council could still require an easement).

Perhaps this is the place for a Velib-like sysstem.

But of course, the true intention isn't to create jobs and improve quality of life. This is another potential city revenue source, regardless of whether you're butchering a viable service and stepping all over what should be an open market.