Comments on: London Imposes $50 Guzzler Fee on SUVs and Lux Roadsters http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Matt http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44463 Matt Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:20:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44463 #6 the zone only covers a small area, so it's more like "the guy who idles, doing an average of 6mph, for a 2 mile journey" whatever kind of car you have! Petrol tax is already quite high, petrol is about £1 a litre. #9 yes, the congestion charge's original main aim was to reduce pollution. London has the worst air pollution in western Europe. The van in the picture will probably have to pay a charge too, it looks really old (the phone number on the back changed 13 years ago when they added a digit to all London numbers to make more space for new ones). #6 the zone only covers a small area, so it's more like "the guy who idles, doing an average of 6mph, for a 2 mile journey" whatever kind of car you have! Petrol tax is already quite high, petrol is about £1 a litre.

#9 yes, the congestion charge's original main aim was to reduce pollution. London has the worst air pollution in western Europe.

The van in the picture will probably have to pay a charge too, it looks really old (the phone number on the back changed 13 years ago when they added a digit to all London numbers to make more space for new ones).

]]> By: I'll say it again http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44462 I'll say it again Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:14:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44462 #8's confusion follows logically from the ambiguity of the word "congestion" in the CP plan. Congestion is being used to mean both "crowding" (in which case #8 has a point) and "pollution" (in which she is of course wrong.) Many of us know that the two are linked (because vehicles that idle cause more pollution) but the whole debate has been clouded by this failure to explain and set clear goals. I guess it was deemed too risky. Look where it's brought us. #8's confusion follows logically from the ambiguity of the word "congestion" in the CP plan. Congestion is being used to mean both "crowding" (in which case #8 has a point) and "pollution" (in which she is of course wrong.) Many of us know that the two are linked (because vehicles that idle cause more pollution) but the whole debate has been clouded by this failure to explain and set clear goals. I guess it was deemed too risky. Look where it's brought us.

]]> By: Anonymous from EU http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44461 Anonymous from EU Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:02:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44461 #8: Completely and utterly wrong. Those people chose to buy a car that costs more and pollutes more. They could just as well have bought a car that pollutes less but they chose otherwise. You are assuming that being paid more means you are allowed more liberties than what is allowed to those who are paid a bit less. Common misconception. #8: Completely and utterly wrong.

Those people chose to buy a car that costs more and pollutes more. They could just as well have bought a car that pollutes less but they chose otherwise.

You are assuming that being paid more means you are allowed more liberties than what is allowed to those who are paid a bit less. Common misconception.

]]> By: Sam Clifford http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44460 Sam Clifford Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:01:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44460 Perhaps Livingstone wants to clean up the air as well as the streets? Perhaps Livingstone wants to clean up the air as well as the streets?

]]> By: st http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44439 st Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:32:09 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44439 I agree with #2 tru dat--why exempt low emmision vehicles? If the goal is to reduce traffic congestion then ALL vehicles should pay. Otherwise it becomes a socialist class tax--penalizing those who happen to earn more. I agree with #2 tru dat--why exempt low emmision vehicles? If the goal is to reduce traffic congestion then ALL vehicles should pay. Otherwise it becomes a socialist class tax--penalizing those who happen to earn more.

]]> By: momos http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44430 momos Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:43:28 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44430 I agree that congestion is congestion. It's not smart to exempt a car from the congestion charge, no matter whether it pollutes or not. However, a $50/day guzzler charge is s great idea. It compliments the UK's general car tax scheme, which taxes autos according to the grams of CO2 emitted per km. This is one of the reasons diesel engines have become so popular in the UK. Modern diesels burn cleanly and emit far less CO2 than gasoline engines, while also giving far better mileage. Interesting historical note: Rudolph Diesel, the German engineer who invented the diesel engine, originally designed his engine to run on peanut oil. Only later were diesel engines adapted to run on fossil fuel. I agree that congestion is congestion. It's not smart to exempt a car from the congestion charge, no matter whether it pollutes or not.

However, a $50/day guzzler charge is s great idea. It compliments the UK's general car tax scheme, which taxes autos according to the grams of CO2 emitted per km.

This is one of the reasons diesel engines have become so popular in the UK. Modern diesels burn cleanly and emit far less CO2 than gasoline engines, while also giving far better mileage.

Interesting historical note: Rudolph Diesel, the German engineer who invented the diesel engine, originally designed his engine to run on peanut oil. Only later were diesel engines adapted to run on fossil fuel.

]]> By: anon http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44426 anon Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:30:24 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44426 It sounds a bit punative and arbitrary to me. So a guy who drives 2 miles in a 10 miles a gallon car is punished but someone who drives 100 miles with a 30 miles a gallon car isn't? I don't know if the Mayor of London has the authority but a gas tax is a far more equitible way to discourage undesirable behavior than this. I'd be worried about provoking a backlash with regulations so arbitrary. It sounds a bit punative and arbitrary to me. So a guy who drives 2 miles in a 10 miles a gallon car is punished but someone who drives 100 miles with a 30 miles a gallon car isn't?

I don't know if the Mayor of London has the authority but a gas tax is a far more equitible way to discourage undesirable behavior than this.

I'd be worried about provoking a backlash with regulations so arbitrary.

]]> By: Hilary http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44424 Hilary Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:19:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44424 Giving out incentives to people to convert to more fuel-efficient, smaller vehicles is exactly what we should be doing. We could be doing it with our restrictions on the city's parkways and bridges. Why should NYC accept the phony redefinition of "truck" and "automobile" created as loopholes for SUVs and light trucks? Giving out incentives to people to convert to more fuel-efficient, smaller vehicles is exactly what we should be doing. We could be doing it with our restrictions on the city's parkways and bridges. Why should NYC accept the phony redefinition of "truck" and "automobile" created as loopholes for SUVs and light trucks?

]]> By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44422 Doc Barnett Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:09:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44422 Yeah... not sure that a 100% exemption for any motor vehicle is a good precedent. London could easily and quickly be re-congested with these things: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/volkswagens_pol.php (Wind turbines, greenish paint, hooray!) On the other hand, once you have the infrastructure (as the new tank surcharge demonstrates) you can make changes as you need to, so when 62mpg Polos become a nuisance you can bump them back up to at least £4 daily. Yeah... not sure that a 100% exemption for any motor vehicle is a good precedent. London could easily and quickly be re-congested with these things:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/volkswagens_pol.php

(Wind turbines, greenish paint, hooray!) On the other hand, once you have the infrastructure (as the new tank surcharge demonstrates) you can make changes as you need to, so when 62mpg Polos become a nuisance you can bump them back up to at least £4 daily.

]]> By: Guz http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44419 Guz Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:02:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44419 Whup the SUVs with a $42 pollution surcharge and keep the $8 congestion charge. The first pedestrian killed in New York City was killed by an electric car. Dead is dead. Congestion is congestion. Whup the SUVs with a $42 pollution surcharge and keep the $8 congestion charge. The first pedestrian killed in New York City was killed by an electric car. Dead is dead. Congestion is congestion.

]]> By: true dat http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44416 true dat Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:48:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44416 Why exempt low-emission vehicles? Emissions or no, all cars generate space pollution that severely compromises biking, walking, surface transit and urban livability. Why exempt low-emission vehicles?

Emissions or no, all cars generate space pollution that severely compromises biking, walking, surface transit and urban livability.

]]> By: Congestion Pricer http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/comment-page-1/#comment-44415 Congestion Pricer Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:42:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/#comment-44415 And to think we're arguing about a measly $8!! Mr. Livingstone, I salute you! And to think we're arguing about a measly $8!!

Mr. Livingstone, I salute you!

]]>