Comments on: London Announces Billion Dollar Bike Plan http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:07:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Gary http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44526 Gary Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:24:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44526 After visiting the Netherlands this summer, there is certainly a different culture on helmets in Northern Europe and lots of stuff is carried and stowed on bikes. But separated bike lanes and generally bigger heavier more stable bikes and a less aggressive cycling style are also probably factors. After visiting the Netherlands this summer, there is certainly a different culture on helmets in Northern Europe and lots of stuff is carried and stowed on bikes. But separated bike lanes and generally bigger heavier more stable bikes and a less aggressive cycling style are also probably factors.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44519 Angus Grieve-Smith Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:45:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44519 I have a pair of large panniers that come off easily and have shoulder straps. When I lived in Albuquerque, I regularly used them to buy groceries, since it's difficult to find housing there that's reasonably priced, relatively quiet, and convenient to jobs and the university - <i>and</i> walking distance from a supermarket. I have a pair of large panniers that come off easily and have shoulder straps. When I lived in Albuquerque, I regularly used them to buy groceries, since it's difficult to find housing there that's reasonably priced, relatively quiet, and convenient to jobs and the university - and walking distance from a supermarket.

]]> By: Chris http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44518 Chris Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44518 This photo gives some idea of the amount of shopping that some people are willing to carry by bike - using panniers. http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/203282475/in/pool-edinburgh_cycles_to_work This photo gives some idea of the amount of shopping that some people are willing to carry by bike - using panniers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/203282475/in/pool-edinburgh_cycles_to_work

]]> By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44402 BicyclesOnly Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:14:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44402 Angus is right about the lack of racks and baskets on delivery persons' bikes. They often ride around with both handlebars laden with multiple bags of food. The recently enacted law should have required the merchant that employs them to provide racks or baskets. In addition, many bicyclist-shoppers will hang a bag or two from the handlebars: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/sets/72157603696665564/ It's not the safest thing in the world but certain items (like a cake from the bakery) would get ruined on a rack with bungee cords holding it down. The alternative is holding the bag with one hand and bicyling with the other, which is none too safe either. And one sees women riding in skirted suits in NYC, as well--but they do tend to wear helmets: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1888752311/in/set-72157603552778747/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1813296129/in/set-72157603552778747/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1928721422/in/set-72157601965453845/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2163419732/in/set-72157603606838436/ All that said, without question there is a strong dose of crass sex appeal in the UK cycling promotion efforts. My favorite example is this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lXIq4VSYmsQ. Of course, the Brits are downright prudish compared to what you see on the Continent . . . http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/21/whacky-european-traffic-calming-techniques/ Angus is right about the lack of racks and baskets on delivery persons' bikes. They often ride around with both handlebars laden with multiple bags of food. The recently enacted law should have required the merchant that employs them to provide racks or baskets.

In addition, many bicyclist-shoppers will hang a bag or two from the handlebars:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/sets/72157603696665564/

It's not the safest thing in the world but certain items (like a cake from the bakery) would get ruined on a rack with bungee cords holding it down. The alternative is holding the bag with one hand and bicyling with the other, which is none too safe either.

And one sees women riding in skirted suits in NYC, as well--but they do tend to wear helmets:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1888752311/in/set-72157603552778747/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1813296129/in/set-72157603552778747/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/1928721422/in/set-72157601965453845/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2163419732/in/set-72157603606838436/

All that said, without question there is a strong dose of crass sex appeal in the UK cycling promotion efforts. My favorite example is this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lXIq4VSYmsQ.

Of course, the Brits are downright prudish compared to what you see on the Continent . . .

http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/21/whacky-european-traffic-calming-techniques/

]]> By: curmudgeon http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44397 curmudgeon Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:38:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44397 Using your handlebar as a luggage carrying device (unless it's a center-mounted handlebar bag) is a bad idea, which has little to do with getting "mowed over by cars." If the object hanging from the ends starts swinging, two things can happen: 1. The object is heavy enough that slight wobbling or maneuvering will cause the object to start swinging, and thereby "steer" the handlebar on its own against the cyclists wishes, leading to a loss of control. 2. The object--often a plastic or cloth shopping bag--swings right into the spokes behind the fork, causing the front wheel to lock up, and the cyclist goes over the handlebar. I know an avid cyclist from a local club who was severely injured this way, spending weeks in the hospital. Using your handlebar as a luggage carrying device (unless it's a center-mounted handlebar bag) is a bad idea, which has little to do with getting "mowed over by cars." If the object hanging from the ends starts swinging, two things can happen:

1. The object is heavy enough that slight wobbling or maneuvering will cause the object to start swinging, and thereby "steer" the handlebar on its own against the cyclists wishes, leading to a loss of control.

2. The object--often a plastic or cloth shopping bag--swings right into the spokes behind the fork, causing the front wheel to lock up, and the cyclist goes over the handlebar. I know an avid cyclist from a local club who was severely injured this way, spending weeks in the hospital.

]]> By: Brooklyn http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44396 Brooklyn Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:36:22 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44396 Please, Mitch, you need some handling skills; maybe a bike fit so you're properly positioned and not thrown off at every bump and hole on the road. Not to defend statistics, but there are no statistics by anecdote. Anecdotes, close calls and speculation are _always_ recited by helmet pentecostals. Your self-negligence and poor cycling habits have nothing to do with me. There's risk in every mode of transport. Leave it at that. Please, Mitch, you need some handling skills; maybe a bike fit so you're properly positioned and not thrown off at every bump and hole on the road.

Not to defend statistics, but there are no statistics by anecdote. Anecdotes, close calls and speculation are _always_ recited by helmet pentecostals. Your self-negligence and poor cycling habits have nothing to do with me.

There's risk in every mode of transport. Leave it at that.

]]> By: Mitch http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44392 Mitch Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:00:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44392 <blockquote>People do this all the time in countries where they don't have to worry about getting mowed over when they make the slightest wobble while riding.</blockquote> Even if there is no car anywhere in sight, there's always some risk that you'll fall off your bike and onto your head. If you do get hit by a car, there's a serious risk that you'll be injured somewhere other than the head, or suffer such an impact that a helmet won't make much difference. I wear a helmet, but not for protection from cars. I've been hit by a car once (got a broken collarbone; a helmet would have been irrelevant), but I've had multiple spills (due to snow, ice, gravel, mud on pavement, or my own stupidity), and I've come close to hitting my head on a few of those. I used to know someone who got a terrible concussion from riding into a friend's wheel on a training ride. I get the impression that people ride less aggressively in Amsterdam and Copenhagen than they do in the US, and I've also heard that the pavement is in better shape in northern Europe than in most American cities, so they might be at less risk from the kinds of crashes that cause head injuries. Even so, it would probably be a good idea for them to wear helmets, too.

People do this all the time in countries where they don't have to worry about getting mowed over when they make the slightest wobble while riding.

Even if there is no car anywhere in sight, there's always some risk that you'll fall off your bike and onto your head. If you do get hit by a car, there's a serious risk that you'll be injured somewhere other than the head, or suffer such an impact that a helmet won't make much difference.

I wear a helmet, but not for protection from cars. I've been hit by a car once (got a broken collarbone; a helmet would have been irrelevant), but I've had multiple spills (due to snow, ice, gravel, mud on pavement, or my own stupidity), and I've come close to hitting my head on a few of those. I used to know someone who got a terrible concussion from riding into a friend's wheel on a training ride.

I get the impression that people ride less aggressively in Amsterdam and Copenhagen than they do in the US, and I've also heard that the pavement is in better shape in northern Europe than in most American cities, so they might be at less risk from the kinds of crashes that cause head injuries. Even so, it would probably be a good idea for them to wear helmets, too.

]]> By: Marcus http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44387 Marcus Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:30:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44387 Notice the large gap between Victoria, Piccadilly and Holburn; biggest pain in the arse place to ride in town. That's where they really need the route. My girlfriend rides to work in skirts on her big old dutch bike (albeit with a helmet and panniers). The graphic is from the Evening Standard (newspaper), not from Red Ken. Notice the large gap between Victoria, Piccadilly and Holburn; biggest pain in the arse place to ride in town. That's where they really need the route.

My girlfriend rides to work in skirts on her big old dutch bike (albeit with a helmet and panniers). The graphic is from the Evening Standard (newspaper), not from Red Ken.

]]> By: Braddy http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44385 Braddy Tue, 12 Feb 2008 04:46:02 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44385 London, don't forget about bike stations. Indoor bike storage with changing facilities, please. London, don't forget about bike stations. Indoor bike storage with changing facilities, please.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44378 Angus Grieve-Smith Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:25:37 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44378 Ditto on the practical storage accessories, Andy! For me, a bike without a rack is practically useless, and I'm constantly amazed to see the number of bikes without them in NYC. Especially delivery bikes. WTF? Ditto on the practical storage accessories, Andy! For me, a bike without a rack is practically useless, and I'm constantly amazed to see the number of bikes without them in NYC. Especially delivery bikes. WTF?

]]> By: Damien http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44376 Damien Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:26:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44376 I read about Livingston, I read about Daley, heck I read about Bloomberg...then I realize that it's considered a miracle when my Mayor (Villaraigosa of Los Angeles) agrees to ride transit once a week... I read about Livingston, I read about Daley, heck I read about Bloomberg...then I realize that it's considered a miracle when my Mayor (Villaraigosa of Los Angeles) agrees to ride transit once a week...

]]> By: Andy B from Jersey http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44371 Andy B from Jersey Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:35:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44371 People do this all the time in countries where they don't have to worry about getting mowed over when they make the slightest wobble while riding. However I agree that there are plenty of practical storage accessories that allow people to keep both hands on the bars. People do this all the time in countries where they don't have to worry about getting mowed over when they make the slightest wobble while riding. However I agree that there are plenty of practical storage accessories that allow people to keep both hands on the bars.

]]> By: Chris http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44368 Chris Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:50:11 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44368 It depends what you mean by a joke. Posed? - probably No helmet - pretty normal where lots of people cycle - http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com Luggage on handlebar NOT a good idea - http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2008/01/04/something-you-dont-want-to-see/ It depends what you mean by a joke.

Posed? - probably

No helmet - pretty normal where lots of people cycle -

http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com

Luggage on handlebar NOT a good idea -

http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2008/01/04/something-you-dont-want-to-see/

]]> By: Gwin http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44367 Gwin Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:43:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44367 Please tell me that graphic is a joke. A woman riding a bike in a business suit and without a helmet, clumsily holding something (a briefcase?) in one hand? What a joke. Please tell me that graphic is a joke. A woman riding a bike in a business suit and without a helmet, clumsily holding something (a briefcase?) in one hand? What a joke.

]]> By: Chris http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44366 Chris Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:43:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44366 Yeah we're waiting for Edinburgh Council to get the message too!! http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2008/02/11/can-one-capital-learn-from-another Yeah we're waiting for Edinburgh Council to get the message too!!

http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2008/02/11/can-one-capital-learn-from-another

]]> By: Byron http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44363 Byron Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:41:02 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44363 Take note, Mayor Bloomberg! Let's get something like that here in NYC! Take note, Mayor Bloomberg! Let's get something like that here in NYC!

]]> By: Josh http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44358 Josh Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:00:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44358 *sigh* I wanna move to London. *sigh*

I wanna move to London.

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-44356 ddartley Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:35:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/11/london-announces-billion-dollar-bike-plan/#comment-44356 "New York: Encourage cycling and see more leg!" "New York: Encourage cycling and see more leg!"

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