Comments on: Road Pricing and Public Transit: The “Virtuous Cycle” http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:06:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43288 Michael1 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:54:16 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43288 Well, yeah if the street has few cars, then it doesn't matter what the MTA rolls down. Doubt that's gonna happen for a while. Well, yeah if the street has few cars, then it doesn't matter what the MTA rolls down. Doubt that's gonna happen for a while.

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43285 Niccolo Machiavelli Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:02:23 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43285 No Michael, the key is one less operator. No Michael, the key is one less operator.

]]> By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43253 Michael1 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:12:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43253 Ok, I'll admit it I didn't see those barricades in the picture, but regardless I was thinking of 2nd Avenue and Lexington Avenue when I was writing. Ok, I'll admit it I didn't see those barricades in the picture, but regardless I was thinking of 2nd Avenue and Lexington Avenue when I was writing.

]]> By: Gary http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43250 Gary Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:23:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43250 Josh, that bus is not blocking anybody. The street on the right of the picture (as noted by #4 above) is blocked off with police barricades. Josh, that bus is not blocking anybody. The street on the right of the picture (as noted by #4 above) is blocked off with police barricades.

]]> By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43236 Michael1 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:13:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43236 No, snakes buses are pretty much two buses in one. I'm betting two normal hyrbid buses can get in and out of the same bus stop a lot better than one snake bus. The key is maneuverability in a congested street, which snakes buses suck at doing. Does anybody have stats on gas usage comparing CNGs and the Hybrids? No, snakes buses are pretty much two buses in one.

I'm betting two normal hyrbid buses can get in and out of the same bus stop a lot better than one snake bus. The key is maneuverability in a congested street, which snakes buses suck at doing.

Does anybody have stats on gas usage comparing CNGs and the Hybrids?

]]> By: Mitch http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43213 Mitch Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:32:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43213 Instead of double-length "snake" buses, it would be nice to bring back double-decker buses. I remember riding on the top-level of a Fifth Avenue bus when I was a kid, long, long ago. I've never understood why they got rid of them. Instead of double-length "snake" buses, it would be nice to bring back double-decker buses. I remember riding on the top-level of a Fifth Avenue bus when I was a kid, long, long ago. I've never understood why they got rid of them.

]]> By: mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43212 mork Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:20:52 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43212 Michael1- Those buses are there because they are highly used routes. Do you think that 2 buses would take up less space than one articulated bus? Michael1-

Those buses are there because they are highly used routes. Do you think that 2 buses would take up less space than one articulated bus?

]]> By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43199 Michael1 Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:29:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43199 Not that I'm fully against this "virtuous cycle" but I don't see it a guaranteed win-win. I see the BRT as having a higher percentage of being a win-win. Not that I'm fully against this "virtuous cycle" but I don't see it a guaranteed win-win. I see the BRT as having a higher percentage of being a win-win.

]]> By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43198 Michael1 Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:19:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43198 I didn't say get rid of buses. I said get rid of snake buses. They should just be replaced with the new hybrid ones. The snakes are CNG buses, and the best buses out there, in my opinion in terms of acceleration are the new hybrids. The CNGs take a long time to merge into traffic (most of the time needs two travel lanes just to get out of the bus stop) and are constantly blocking intersections, probably because they have no choice; if they leave a gap, cars will cut infront of the bus on the other side of the street. I think the MTA had the right idea, try to pack more on one bus at one time, but I think it makes the overall ride slower, unless you have a BRT infrastructure in place. I think that's the only way those snake buses will be the most beneficial in terms of mass transit. Capice? I didn't say get rid of buses. I said get rid of snake buses. They should just be replaced with the new hybrid ones. The snakes are CNG buses, and the best buses out there, in my opinion in terms of acceleration are the new hybrids. The CNGs take a long time to merge into traffic (most of the time needs two travel lanes just to get out of the bus stop) and are constantly blocking intersections, probably because they have no choice; if they leave a gap, cars will cut infront of the bus on the other side of the street. I think the MTA had the right idea, try to pack more on one bus at one time, but I think it makes the overall ride slower, unless you have a BRT infrastructure in place. I think that's the only way those snake buses will be the most beneficial in terms of mass transit.

Capice?

]]> By: mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43188 mork Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:42:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43188 Michael1 -- Good idea. And give each of the 60 people on that bus their own car -- that'll fix everything. Michael1 --

Good idea. And give each of the 60 people on that bus their own car -- that'll fix everything.

]]> By: Josh http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43187 Josh Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:41:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43187 I have to be honest, I think I agree with #1 here. It doesn't matter if the bus is stuck from the previous cycle, if it didn't have room to get all the way through the intersection then it shouldn't have started into the intersection in the first place. I have to be honest, I think I agree with #1 here. It doesn't matter if the bus is stuck from the previous cycle, if it didn't have room to get all the way through the intersection then it shouldn't have started into the intersection in the first place.

]]> By: dick shea http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43161 dick shea Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:17:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43161 so was this taken from the dick shea dance studio on 14th and 6th? so was this taken from the dick shea dance studio on 14th and 6th?

]]> By: Michael1 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43160 Michael1 Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:17:35 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43160 Step one in reducing congestion: Get rid of those damned snake buses. Step one in reducing congestion: Get rid of those damned snake buses.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43158 Jonathan Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:09:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43158 It's the corner of West 14th Street and 6th Avenue, if anybody's keeping score. Today is like Encyclopedia Brown day on Streetsblog, what with the Case of the Previous Cycle on this thread and the Case of the Missing Bollards on <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/nypd-tow-pound-is-still-the-source-of-greenway-danger/#comment-43154" rel="nofollow">the other one</a>. It's the corner of West 14th Street and 6th Avenue, if anybody's keeping score.

Today is like Encyclopedia Brown day on Streetsblog, what with the Case of the Previous Cycle on this thread and the Case of the Missing Bollards on the other one.

]]> By: Congestion Pricing Now http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43153 Congestion Pricing Now Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:01:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43153 "....merely stuck from a previous cycle" "....merely stuck from a previous cycle"

]]> By: Congestion Pricing Now http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43152 Congestion Pricing Now Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:57:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43152 Is it just me or is that avenue closed (see police barricades), forcing cars to turn right? Also, take note that the light is red for both the crosstown street and the avenue (ALL RED in the parlance). The REAL problems are the yellow cab and black car turning right after their cycle (yes, they both ran that light). The crosstown bus on right is merely from a previous cycle. It wouldn't be if those pesky cars weren't there. The one on the left, like the taxi on its left, hit the gas even before their green to gain a better position for making it thru the intersection. Is it just me or is that avenue closed (see police barricades), forcing cars to turn right?

Also, take note that the light is red for both the crosstown street and the avenue (ALL RED in the parlance).

The REAL problems are the yellow cab and black car turning right after their cycle (yes, they both ran that light).

The crosstown bus on right is merely from a previous cycle. It wouldn't be if those pesky cars weren't there.

The one on the left, like the taxi on its left, hit the gas even before their green to gain a better position for making it thru the intersection.

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43151 Niccolo Machiavelli Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:51:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43151 The first response here really cuts to the chase no? The congestion charge is really just a way to equalize the economy between mass transit uses and sigle occupancy vehicles.One bus with eighty people on board would fill four block, three lanes (twelve lane blocks) with single occupancy vehicles. Pricing is the only way to address the spacial inefficiency of single occupancy vehicles because any other decongestant (for lack of a better social concept) will only cause the emptied space to be filled by other single occupancy vehicles. The first response here really cuts to the chase no? The congestion charge is really just a way to equalize the economy between mass transit uses and sigle occupancy vehicles.One bus with eighty people on board would fill four block, three lanes (twelve lane blocks) with single occupancy vehicles. Pricing is the only way to address the spacial inefficiency of single occupancy vehicles because any other decongestant (for lack of a better social concept) will only cause the emptied space to be filled by other single occupancy vehicles.

]]> By: Dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43150 Dan Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:41:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43150 That's funny. It looks to me like all of those private, probably single passenger cars in the bus's lane are what's causing the problem. I bet the 70 bus passengers would agree with me and the 4 drivers would agree with you. That's funny. It looks to me like all of those private, probably single passenger cars in the bus's lane are what's causing the problem. I bet the 70 bus passengers would agree with me and the 4 drivers would agree with you.

]]> By: Just curious? http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/comment-page-1/#comment-43148 Just curious? Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:33:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/17/road-pricing-and-public-transit-the-virtuous-cycle/#comment-43148 A close look at the photo reveals that it is the much revered mass transit bus that is causing the problem, not private cars. A close look at the photo reveals that it is the much revered mass transit bus that is causing the problem, not private cars.

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