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	<title>Comments on: Bridge Toll Plan Headlines Congestion Commission Report</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Charles Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42892</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42892</guid>
		<description>Dave says: &quot;As a relatively successful Manhattan resident with a car and a second home I am talking about fairness. I already pay more to Washington and Albany than I will ever receive in benefits. As a single man I subsidize the education, healthcare, municipal services (fire, police,etc), phone service, cable rates, subway fares, etc. of the less fortunate.&quot;

The theory of progressive taxation is that it is fair for taxes to involve equal sacrifices from everyone - which is not the same as equal payment from everyone.  

If you had to pay an extra $1000 a year in taxes, you might have to make the sacrifice of having to buy a smaller second home.  If someone at the poverty level had to pay an extra $1000 a year in taxes, they might become homeless because they could not afford their rent - a much greater sacrifice than you would have to make to pay that amount.  Your complaint is just based on self-interest, not on fairness. 

The theory of public funding for education is that everyone benefits when the population is better educated.  Imagine how much less prosperous the economy as a whole (including you) would be if, say, we had one-half or one-tenth as many college graduates as we currently have.  

If everyone were single and childless like you, there would me no one to work after you retire.  People who have children are not only paying tax for education but are also making the personal effort to raise their children.  They are doing much more than you are to produce the next generation of workers who will keep the economy going after your generation retires.  You are not subsidizing them; they are subsidizing you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave says: &#8220;As a relatively successful Manhattan resident with a car and a second home I am talking about fairness. I already pay more to Washington and Albany than I will ever receive in benefits. As a single man I subsidize the education, healthcare, municipal services (fire, police,etc), phone service, cable rates, subway fares, etc. of the less fortunate.&#8221;</p>
<p>The theory of progressive taxation is that it is fair for taxes to involve equal sacrifices from everyone &#8211; which is not the same as equal payment from everyone.  </p>
<p>If you had to pay an extra $1000 a year in taxes, you might have to make the sacrifice of having to buy a smaller second home.  If someone at the poverty level had to pay an extra $1000 a year in taxes, they might become homeless because they could not afford their rent &#8211; a much greater sacrifice than you would have to make to pay that amount.  Your complaint is just based on self-interest, not on fairness. </p>
<p>The theory of public funding for education is that everyone benefits when the population is better educated.  Imagine how much less prosperous the economy as a whole (including you) would be if, say, we had one-half or one-tenth as many college graduates as we currently have.  </p>
<p>If everyone were single and childless like you, there would me no one to work after you retire.  People who have children are not only paying tax for education but are also making the personal effort to raise their children.  They are doing much more than you are to produce the next generation of workers who will keep the economy going after your generation retires.  You are not subsidizing them; they are subsidizing you.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42887</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42887</guid>
		<description>Before we abandon the chit chat about Dave&#039;s parking costs, let me share the cost of parking a (small) car in my garage in lower Manhattan: $750/month (plus tips). Dave should know that his parking costs have a long way to rise before they reach what is considered market rate in a not-so-distant neighborhood. From my point of view, your fee is like rent-controlled housing. Don&#039;t expect it to last.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before we abandon the chit chat about Dave&#8217;s parking costs, let me share the cost of parking a (small) car in my garage in lower Manhattan: $750/month (plus tips). Dave should know that his parking costs have a long way to rise before they reach what is considered market rate in a not-so-distant neighborhood. From my point of view, your fee is like rent-controlled housing. Don&#8217;t expect it to last.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42884</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42884</guid>
		<description>They&#039;ll have to overcome a couple of problems with bridge tolling.

The tolls will encourage people to cram on the BQE rather than using the FDR, although the increased capacity as a result of people not going out of their way to the free bridges and backing up exits might offset that entirely.

And there is no peak hour pricing, although there certainly could be.

Meanwhile, if the money is supposed to go to the MTA, the question is how to get it there.  I still like my &quot;bridge swap&quot; idea, with the city trading bridges to Manhattan to the MTA (three of which also carry trains) for the other TBTA bridges.  In the end, the city does get a revenue boost from that plan, while the MTA gets a way to manage overall traffic in its primary market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;ll have to overcome a couple of problems with bridge tolling.</p>
<p>The tolls will encourage people to cram on the BQE rather than using the FDR, although the increased capacity as a result of people not going out of their way to the free bridges and backing up exits might offset that entirely.</p>
<p>And there is no peak hour pricing, although there certainly could be.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if the money is supposed to go to the MTA, the question is how to get it there.  I still like my &#8220;bridge swap&#8221; idea, with the city trading bridges to Manhattan to the MTA (three of which also carry trains) for the other TBTA bridges.  In the end, the city does get a revenue boost from that plan, while the MTA gets a way to manage overall traffic in its primary market.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42882</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42882</guid>
		<description>Enough chit-chat about Dave&#039;s monthly parking costs.

Let&#039;s talk relative merits.

I think the commission process (which many were so terrified of several months ago) has given us a much, much better program.

And that is the bridge tolling plan.  WAY more money for transit, far less startup cost, and much less intrusive (fewer cameras).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough chit-chat about Dave&#8217;s monthly parking costs.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s talk relative merits.</p>
<p>I think the commission process (which many were so terrified of several months ago) has given us a much, much better program.</p>
<p>And that is the bridge tolling plan.  WAY more money for transit, far less startup cost, and much less intrusive (fewer cameras).</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42833</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42833</guid>
		<description>Uh, Jack ... I live in Queens.  I call it &quot;the 59th Street Bridge&quot; because it goes to 59th Street.  That&#039;s what many of the people in my part of Queens say.  They don&#039;t seem very elite to me.

If I&#039;d called it &quot;the Queensborough Bridge,&quot; would you have called me elitist for taking a Manhattan perspective about where the bridge goes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Jack &#8230; I live in Queens.  I call it &#8220;the 59th Street Bridge&#8221; because it goes to 59th Street.  That&#8217;s what many of the people in my part of Queens say.  They don&#8217;t seem very elite to me.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;d called it &#8220;the Queensborough Bridge,&#8221; would you have called me elitist for taking a Manhattan perspective about where the bridge goes?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42832</guid>
		<description>Dave, I don&#039;t know where your second home is, but I&#039;m sure the grocery store and nursery that you shop at will deliver your goods to the door. You could always call a taxi, too. 

The reason to consider raising parking taxes is this: as Hilary notes, Manhattanites like yourself who pay to park are the hard-core motorists in the discussion, because you don&#039;t have to worry about losing your on-street space when you move your car. That&#039;s the benefit you get from garaging: that you can take the car out and drive to the uptown Fairway, do your shopping, and come home without worrying about finding a space. So obviously your garage buddies are using their cars more than the on-street parkers.

If raising parking taxes forces people like yourself to consider using a rental car instead of owning a personal vehicle, that not only reduces the total auto population in Manhattan but reduces the number of those noncommuting shopping trips you take.

So don&#039;t think of a tax hike as a subsidy to onstreet parkers, think of it as paying your fair share for the opportunity you have to use your car whenever you want.

If you&#039;re serious about not using the car at your convenience, but don&#039;t want to rent a car, you could always garage the whip somewhere cheaper. The big indoor garage on 184th and Broadway charges about $250 a month and is close to both the 1 and A trains.

And as for &quot;news you can use,&quot; may I suggest shopping around for car insurance? If you paid what I do (for a Manhattan-registered vehicle, natch) instead of your inflated rate, you would be saving more than you&#039;d spend on that increased parking tax on your car&#039;s $400/month home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I don&#8217;t know where your second home is, but I&#8217;m sure the grocery store and nursery that you shop at will deliver your goods to the door. You could always call a taxi, too. </p>
<p>The reason to consider raising parking taxes is this: as Hilary notes, Manhattanites like yourself who pay to park are the hard-core motorists in the discussion, because you don&#8217;t have to worry about losing your on-street space when you move your car. That&#8217;s the benefit you get from garaging: that you can take the car out and drive to the uptown Fairway, do your shopping, and come home without worrying about finding a space. So obviously your garage buddies are using their cars more than the on-street parkers.</p>
<p>If raising parking taxes forces people like yourself to consider using a rental car instead of owning a personal vehicle, that not only reduces the total auto population in Manhattan but reduces the number of those noncommuting shopping trips you take.</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t think of a tax hike as a subsidy to onstreet parkers, think of it as paying your fair share for the opportunity you have to use your car whenever you want.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re serious about not using the car at your convenience, but don&#8217;t want to rent a car, you could always garage the whip somewhere cheaper. The big indoor garage on 184th and Broadway charges about $250 a month and is close to both the 1 and A trains.</p>
<p>And as for &#8220;news you can use,&#8221; may I suggest shopping around for car insurance? If you paid what I do (for a Manhattan-registered vehicle, natch) instead of your inflated rate, you would be saving more than you&#8217;d spend on that increased parking tax on your car&#8217;s $400/month home.</p>
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		<title>By: Niccolo Machiavelli</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42831</link>
		<dc:creator>Niccolo Machiavelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42831</guid>
		<description>Yes Jack, and the lucky residents of LIC and Astoria get the privilege of having everyone from Douglaston, Bayside and Wantagh clog their streets and air twice a day for three hours a day.  LIC and Astoria are so lucky to live near the free &quot;Queensboro&quot; bridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Jack, and the lucky residents of LIC and Astoria get the privilege of having everyone from Douglaston, Bayside and Wantagh clog their streets and air twice a day for three hours a day.  LIC and Astoria are so lucky to live near the free &#8220;Queensboro&#8221; bridge.</p>
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		<title>By: jacknyc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42829</link>
		<dc:creator>jacknyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42829</guid>
		<description>ALL OF THOSE WHO REFER TO THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE, JUST LET EVERYONE IN QUEENS KNOW HOW MANHATTAN CENTRIC THIS WHOLE ELISTIST CONCEPT IS...THE QUEENSBORO BRIDGE IS IT&#039;S PROPER AND HISTORIC NAME, IF YOU CAN&#039;T THAT RIGHT...YOUR JUST NOT LISTENING!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALL OF THOSE WHO REFER TO THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE, JUST LET EVERYONE IN QUEENS KNOW HOW MANHATTAN CENTRIC THIS WHOLE ELISTIST CONCEPT IS&#8230;THE QUEENSBORO BRIDGE IS IT&#8217;S PROPER AND HISTORIC NAME, IF YOU CAN&#8217;T THAT RIGHT&#8230;YOUR JUST NOT LISTENING!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42827</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42827</guid>
		<description>Vanderwald:
Since I&#039;m being vilified it&#039;s lieu not liu (unless you were making on pun on city council member Liu but I think not)
And Angus how do I manage my second home without my car?   How do I get the bags of groceries to the house and bags of mulch to the garden except by having a car? 
As a relatively successful Manhattan resident with a car and a second home I am talking about fairness.  I already pay more to Washington and Albany than I will ever receive in benefits.  
As a single man I subsidize the education, healthcare, municipal services (fire, police,etc), phone service, cable rates, subway fares, etc. of the less fortunate.  All of those I can see as being basic rights (well maybe not cable)
But there is no way I will swallow an increase in my parking tax as a subsidy to those who want to park for free on the streets or in project lots.
Owning a car in NYC is a privilege not a right. Permit parking for those who pay NYC taxes and register their cars in NYC is a no-brainer.  An end to the free off-street parking for projects is another politically unpopular but necessary action.
In terms y&#039;all can appreciate I pay $400 a month to park my car in a garage and $100 in insurance  for a car I drive 8000 miles a year.  Compare that to the poor schmo paying nothing to park on the street creating havoc with his double-parking waiting for alternate-side rules and registering his car in PA for cheaper rates.  Charge him for the right to park on the street and leave my parking rates alone.

Rant over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vanderwald:<br />
Since I&#8217;m being vilified it&#8217;s lieu not liu (unless you were making on pun on city council member Liu but I think not)<br />
And Angus how do I manage my second home without my car?   How do I get the bags of groceries to the house and bags of mulch to the garden except by having a car?<br />
As a relatively successful Manhattan resident with a car and a second home I am talking about fairness.  I already pay more to Washington and Albany than I will ever receive in benefits.<br />
As a single man I subsidize the education, healthcare, municipal services (fire, police,etc), phone service, cable rates, subway fares, etc. of the less fortunate.  All of those I can see as being basic rights (well maybe not cable)<br />
But there is no way I will swallow an increase in my parking tax as a subsidy to those who want to park for free on the streets or in project lots.<br />
Owning a car in NYC is a privilege not a right. Permit parking for those who pay NYC taxes and register their cars in NYC is a no-brainer.  An end to the free off-street parking for projects is another politically unpopular but necessary action.<br />
In terms y&#8217;all can appreciate I pay $400 a month to park my car in a garage and $100 in insurance  for a car I drive 8000 miles a year.  Compare that to the poor schmo paying nothing to park on the street creating havoc with his double-parking waiting for alternate-side rules and registering his car in PA for cheaper rates.  Charge him for the right to park on the street and leave my parking rates alone.</p>
<p>Rant over.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42798</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42798</guid>
		<description>Dave, here are three books about places near NYC that you can get to - and get around in - without a car:

http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Weekends-Daytrips-Overnight-Getaways/dp/0789308584
http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Escapes-Without-Wonderful-Weekends/dp/0764598295/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/002-2938311-4402466
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Walker-Hikes-York-Metropolitan/dp/0385141408</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, here are three books about places near NYC that you can get to &#8211; and get around in &#8211; without a car:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Weekends-Daytrips-Overnight-Getaways/dp/0789308584" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Weekends-Daytrips-Overnight-Getaways/dp/0789308584</a><br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Escapes-Without-Wonderful-Weekends/dp/0764598295/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/002-2938311-4402466" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Escapes-Without-Wonderful-Weekends/dp/0764598295/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/002-2938311-4402466</a><br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Day-Walker-Hikes-York-Metropolitan/dp/0385141408" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Day-Walker-Hikes-York-Metropolitan/dp/0385141408</a></p>
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		<title>By: Vanderwald</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42790</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanderwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42790</guid>
		<description>Dave my friend. You don&#039;t need a car to enjoy the area within 50 to 100 miles of New York City. But so long as you choose to have one, how about covering some of the cost you impose on the rest of us? In liu of cutting a very small check to each and everyone of the millions of us without cars, you can start by paying a higher garage tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave my friend. You don&#8217;t need a car to enjoy the area within 50 to 100 miles of New York City. But so long as you choose to have one, how about covering some of the cost you impose on the rest of us? In liu of cutting a very small check to each and everyone of the millions of us without cars, you can start by paying a higher garage tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42786</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42786</guid>
		<description>Dave, I quite enjoy cycling or walking in the countryside on the weekends, or visiting other cities with mass transit. Beats sitting in traffic, and even a lengthy local bus ride is a nice opportunity to see a lot more of the town than I would if I were driving.

And I support your right to complain about ending the parking garage tax exemption. But as the late Sen. Moynihan said, &lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I quite enjoy cycling or walking in the countryside on the weekends, or visiting other cities with mass transit. Beats sitting in traffic, and even a lengthy local bus ride is a nice opportunity to see a lot more of the town than I would if I were driving.</p>
<p>And I support your right to complain about ending the parking garage tax exemption. But as the late Sen. Moynihan said,<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.&#8221;</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42784</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42784</guid>
		<description>Jonathan:
I have every right to present a contrarian view and I would call this site idealistic rather than realistic.
I have the right to complain about raising my parking garage tax that will impact me just like everyone here complains about bridge tolls that will impact them.
And maybe I get it wrong about people driving  within the zone but a $4 charge is not going to discourage the Range-Rover mommies.
As for the weekend sure you can leave the city using mass transit but what do you do when you get there...take a cab everywhere?  And you talk about being realistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan:<br />
I have every right to present a contrarian view and I would call this site idealistic rather than realistic.<br />
I have the right to complain about raising my parking garage tax that will impact me just like everyone here complains about bridge tolls that will impact them.<br />
And maybe I get it wrong about people driving  within the zone but a $4 charge is not going to discourage the Range-Rover mommies.<br />
As for the weekend sure you can leave the city using mass transit but what do you do when you get there&#8230;take a cab everywhere?  And you talk about being realistic.</p>
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		<title>By: evan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42781</link>
		<dc:creator>evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42781</guid>
		<description>If tolls are imposed the East Side bridges, motorcycles / scooters should be exempt.  Bikes are great, but we should be encouraging the use of all two-wheeled vehicles.  

what do you all think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If tolls are imposed the East Side bridges, motorcycles / scooters should be exempt.  Bikes are great, but we should be encouraging the use of all two-wheeled vehicles.  </p>
<p>what do you all think?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42765</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42765</guid>
		<description>Dave, since you don&#039;t believe in the commission&#039;s research on the parking garage tax, and you don&#039;t believe that any Manhattanite without a permit uses her car to commute, and you don&#039;t believe that you can leave the city on the weekend using public transportation, can you explain why you are posting on this reality-based thread?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, since you don&#8217;t believe in the commission&#8217;s research on the parking garage tax, and you don&#8217;t believe that any Manhattanite without a permit uses her car to commute, and you don&#8217;t believe that you can leave the city on the weekend using public transportation, can you explain why you are posting on this reality-based thread?</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42760</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42760</guid>
		<description>Dave, I can say with certainty that exactly 33% of the kids in my son&#039;s fourth grade class are driven to school each morning by their parents who live in the proposed CP zone, to a school within the proposed CP zone.  I have no reason to believe it is any different at other schools, public or private, and in fact I am a witness to (and a victim of) car commuting parents at UES and UWS schools every day. Sure, most of those parents also use the cars for weekend travel.  Maybe that was the reason they originally bought the car.  The point is that once you own the car and garage it off-road in Manhattan, you have every incentive to drive everywhere because there is almost no marginal cost to each additional trip.  These intra-zone off-road garagers definitely contribute to congestion.  Let them pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I can say with certainty that exactly 33% of the kids in my son&#8217;s fourth grade class are driven to school each morning by their parents who live in the proposed CP zone, to a school within the proposed CP zone.  I have no reason to believe it is any different at other schools, public or private, and in fact I am a witness to (and a victim of) car commuting parents at UES and UWS schools every day. Sure, most of those parents also use the cars for weekend travel.  Maybe that was the reason they originally bought the car.  The point is that once you own the car and garage it off-road in Manhattan, you have every incentive to drive everywhere because there is almost no marginal cost to each additional trip.  These intra-zone off-road garagers definitely contribute to congestion.  Let them pay.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42755</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42755</guid>
		<description>Bloomberg gave an inspiring speech on Earth Day --- that looks good on national TV. His pricing relaunch speech could be much shorter, touch on the same themes and emphasize the laundry list of transit improvements. The press and pollsters have contrived a bizare formulation for pricing: like proposing a national healthcare tax and then not offering a national health benefit. It would very ironic if Bloomberg refused to stump for congestion pricing --- and his biggest initiative loses --- because he feared losing hypothetical presidential votes. The essence of his appeal is as a no-nonsense, truth telling, can do guy, who doesnt believe in something for nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloomberg gave an inspiring speech on Earth Day &#8212; that looks good on national TV. His pricing relaunch speech could be much shorter, touch on the same themes and emphasize the laundry list of transit improvements. The press and pollsters have contrived a bizare formulation for pricing: like proposing a national healthcare tax and then not offering a national health benefit. It would very ironic if Bloomberg refused to stump for congestion pricing &#8212; and his biggest initiative loses &#8212; because he feared losing hypothetical presidential votes. The essence of his appeal is as a no-nonsense, truth telling, can do guy, who doesnt believe in something for nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42753</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42753</guid>
		<description>BikesOnly: In my mind there is a large difference between cars that reside in the CP zone and those that enter it every day that is misunderstood by those looking at CP.  I cannot imagine anyone using their car for daily commuting within the CP zone except those that are given placards and we know how tough that will be to change.
Everyone I know who has a car in the zone uses them for weekends; so your thought they they have no excuse to have a car is not relevant since public transportation is not an option.
Sure I pay for the privilege of keeping a car but when I see the on-street spaces filled with cars registered elsewhere; when I see the congestion at the tunnels filled with Jersey drivers I have to say enough is enough.
The preferential tax treatment you speak of is specious given the differences between parking garage rates in Manhattan and the outer boroughs.  Let&#039;s make all garage rates equal throughout the city (like subway fares) and then see how the outer boroughs yell about the tax differential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BikesOnly: In my mind there is a large difference between cars that reside in the CP zone and those that enter it every day that is misunderstood by those looking at CP.  I cannot imagine anyone using their car for daily commuting within the CP zone except those that are given placards and we know how tough that will be to change.<br />
Everyone I know who has a car in the zone uses them for weekends; so your thought they they have no excuse to have a car is not relevant since public transportation is not an option.<br />
Sure I pay for the privilege of keeping a car but when I see the on-street spaces filled with cars registered elsewhere; when I see the congestion at the tunnels filled with Jersey drivers I have to say enough is enough.<br />
The preferential tax treatment you speak of is specious given the differences between parking garage rates in Manhattan and the outer boroughs.  Let&#8217;s make all garage rates equal throughout the city (like subway fares) and then see how the outer boroughs yell about the tax differential.</p>
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		<title>By: Niccolo Machiavelli</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42752</link>
		<dc:creator>Niccolo Machiavelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42752</guid>
		<description>Re: the Flushing sneer.  Flushing is as crowded as Manhattan, maybe even more so.

Re: zoning charge.  That would be two fare zones, which we moved away from to the applause of the Straphangers, Giuliani and Pataki.  The Republicans at the time actually liked the thought of greasing up the many voters of their out in the hinterlands of Brooklyn Queens and SI.  It all was washed into a large fare increase for everyone else and disappeared in the fog of metro card. I don&#039;t see us ever backtracking on that though you see where the resistance to CP is now. Those people have largely forgot the end of the two fare zones.

You can&#039;t save your ass and your face at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the Flushing sneer.  Flushing is as crowded as Manhattan, maybe even more so.</p>
<p>Re: zoning charge.  That would be two fare zones, which we moved away from to the applause of the Straphangers, Giuliani and Pataki.  The Republicans at the time actually liked the thought of greasing up the many voters of their out in the hinterlands of Brooklyn Queens and SI.  It all was washed into a large fare increase for everyone else and disappeared in the fog of metro card. I don&#8217;t see us ever backtracking on that though you see where the resistance to CP is now. Those people have largely forgot the end of the two fare zones.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t save your ass and your face at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42751</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/10/bridge-toll-plan-headlines-congestion-commission-report/#comment-42751</guid>
		<description>BicyclesOnly, I agree that RIGHT NOW the garaged-car-owners are the hard-core motorists-in-Manhattan. That&#039;s because people who rely on curb spots protect their spots so fiercely. When on and off street parking reach some kind of parity, I think the motorers will prefer the convenience of on-street parking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BicyclesOnly, I agree that RIGHT NOW the garaged-car-owners are the hard-core motorists-in-Manhattan. That&#8217;s because people who rely on curb spots protect their spots so fiercely. When on and off street parking reach some kind of parity, I think the motorers will prefer the convenience of on-street parking.</p>
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