Comments on: At P.S. 161 in Harlem the Sidewalk is the Parking Lot http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279330 BicyclesOnly Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:51:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279330 No doubt, there are New Yorkers with an inappropriate attitude of entitlement towards government services. These are the kind of people who litter, don't put the necessary energy into raising their kids, park in bus stops, don't recycle, etc., and expect government workers to deal with the messes they create. I condemn these behaviors and can appreciate how they must frustrate many dedicated government workers. But it only makes things worse when government workers conspire together to give each other "courtesy" in the form of abusive and illegal parking privileges that materially detract from the safety and convenience of the general public. For example, with the completion of the new bike path on Columbus Ave., my son and I have modified our route to school so that we travel west on 83rd Street from Columbus. That block has both a fire house and a post office. Every weekday morning, the roadway is narrowed to about ten feet because of all of the double parking by vehicles with bogus post office and firefighters union placards. There are always pedestrians walking in the street because the sidewalks are blocked by similarly-placarded vehicles. I'm just trying to get my son to school in a safe and healthy way and a major obstacle is the illegal parking by the post office and firehouse employers which has the tacit approval of NYPD. NYPD has basically given away the roadway which belongs to the public, for the private use of fellow gov't employees. So its not too hard to see how this will lead some people to throw that piece of trash on the ground, rationalizing that public employees should work for what they get. It really is a vicious cycle. The other route we used to take west, West 77th St. has a similar problem caused by teachers. There are large portions of curbside space set aside for DoE placrad parking, and a small section right in front of P.S. 87 intended as a no parking-drop off zone for parents. But the teachers park in the drop-off zone, so the parents park and unload their kids in the bike lane, creating a hazard and a serious inconvenience for everyone else. I don't accept that as a legitimate price for me and my son to pay in order to keep P.S. 87 running. No doubt, there are New Yorkers with an inappropriate attitude of entitlement towards government services. These are the kind of people who litter, don’t put the necessary energy into raising their kids, park in bus stops, don’t recycle, etc., and expect government workers to deal with the messes they create. I condemn these behaviors and can appreciate how they must frustrate many dedicated government workers.

But it only makes things worse when government workers conspire together to give each other “courtesy” in the form of abusive and illegal parking privileges that materially detract from the safety and convenience of the general public.

For example, with the completion of the new bike path on Columbus Ave., my son and I have modified our route to school so that we travel west on 83rd Street from Columbus. That block has both a fire house and a post office. Every weekday morning, the roadway is narrowed to about ten feet because of all of the double parking by vehicles with bogus post office and firefighters union placards. There are always pedestrians walking in the street because the sidewalks are blocked by similarly-placarded vehicles. I’m just trying to get my son to school in a safe and healthy way and a major obstacle is the illegal parking by the post office and firehouse employers which has the tacit approval of NYPD. NYPD has basically given away the roadway which belongs to the public, for the private use of fellow gov’t employees. So its not too hard to see how this will lead some people to throw that piece of trash on the ground, rationalizing that public employees should work for what they get. It really is a vicious cycle.

The other route we used to take west, West 77th St. has a similar problem caused by teachers. There are large portions of curbside space set aside for DoE placrad parking, and a small section right in front of P.S. 87 intended as a no parking-drop off zone for parents. But the teachers park in the drop-off zone, so the parents park and unload their kids in the bike lane, creating a hazard and a serious inconvenience for everyone else. I don’t accept that as a legitimate price for me and my son to pay in order to keep P.S. 87 running.

]]> By: Ian Turner http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279329 Ian Turner Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:35:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279329 Lee, Teacher: Perhaps these teachers should move someplace with better access to public transportation, so that they don't have to waste so much time and gray hair on stressing about parking. Lee, Teacher: Perhaps these teachers should move someplace with better access to public transportation, so that they don’t have to waste so much time and gray hair on stressing about parking.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279328 Cap'n Transit Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:35:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279328 <blockquote>You start ticketing teachers for coming to work to babysit your kids that you send to us with no manners or home training so you can go to work then you wont have anyone qualified to try to educate the children.</blockquote> Any teacher who thinks that about city kids is not qualified to educate any children.

You start ticketing teachers for coming to work to babysit your kids that you send to us with no manners or home training so you can go to work then you wont have anyone qualified to try to educate the children.

Any teacher who thinks that about city kids is not qualified to educate any children.

]]> By: Marty Barfowitz http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279291 Marty Barfowitz Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:26:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279291 I expect that teachers obey the law like everyone else and not park on sidewalks. I expect teachers to walk or bike to work or use mass transit like most other New Yorkers. If teachers must drive to get to their jobs I expect them to pay for or search for on-street parking like most other NYC drivers. If teachers are given special places to park their cars, I expect that the value of the parking be accounted for in their compensation packages. Likewise, if some teachers are choosing to forgo this parking, I expect that the city would pay them additional compensation, or cover their mass transit costs, equal to the value of the parking that car-commuting teachers receive for free. The massive sense of entitlement of municipal workers, when it comes to driving and parking, never ceases to amaze me. I expect that teachers obey the law like everyone else and not park on sidewalks.

I expect teachers to walk or bike to work or use mass transit like most other New Yorkers.

If teachers must drive to get to their jobs I expect them to pay for or search for on-street parking like most other NYC drivers.

If teachers are given special places to park their cars, I expect that the value of the parking be accounted for in their compensation packages.

Likewise, if some teachers are choosing to forgo this parking, I expect that the city would pay them additional compensation, or cover their mass transit costs, equal to the value of the parking that car-commuting teachers receive for free.

The massive sense of entitlement of municipal workers, when it comes to driving and parking, never ceases to amaze me.

]]> By: Teacher http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279289 Teacher Sat, 16 Oct 2010 20:48:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279289 Where do you suggest they park then? Most arent paid enough to cover hourly/day charges at a parking lot and they dont have any regular parking in the area. Guess teachers should be expected to walk 30 min to work everyday as well as stay til 6 PM and still not get paid. You start ticketing teachers for coming to work to babysit your kids that you send to us with no manners or home training so you can go to work then you wont have anyone qualified to try to educate the children. I walk by an area where the Firemen park their cars on the sidewalk and block the whole sidewalk and even the handicap area on the curb. Let's comment on that. Where do you suggest they park then? Most arent paid enough to cover hourly/day charges at a parking lot and they dont have any regular parking in the area. Guess teachers should be expected to walk 30 min to work everyday as well as stay til 6 PM and still not get paid. You start ticketing teachers for coming to work to babysit your kids that you send to us with no manners or home training so you can go to work then you wont have anyone qualified to try to educate the children. I walk by an area where the Firemen park their cars on the sidewalk and block the whole sidewalk and even the handicap area on the curb. Let’s comment on that.

]]> By: Mark Walker http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279244 Mark Walker Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:42:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279244 "I commend the school and police department for making things a little easier for those teachers that need a place to park their frigging cars!!" I commend teachers and cops who live in the neighborhoods they serve and walk to work. “I commend the school and police department for making things a little easier for those teachers that need a place to park their frigging cars!!”

I commend teachers and cops who live in the neighborhoods they serve and walk to work.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279243 Cap'n Transit Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:26:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279243 Lee, we DON'T think that cops and firemen should automatically have designated parking spots. And we don't think that NYC teachers should be living in the suburbs when there are plenty of good places in the city to live. Lee, we DON’T think that cops and firemen should automatically have designated parking spots. And we don’t think that NYC teachers should be living in the suburbs when there are plenty of good places in the city to live.

]]> By: lee http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-279242 lee Sat, 16 Oct 2010 02:11:24 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-279242 Most teachers don't live in the city and are travelling from Jersey, Long Island, Bronxville etc! If cops and firemen have designated parking spots, why shouldn't teachers!! You all don't know what they go through!! They have to leave hours earlier just to find a street parking spot, and most times a spot that is on the RIGHT side of the street(alternate street parking)!!They are not permitted to just leave the building to move their cars! Therefore, I commend the school and police department for making things a little easier for those teachers that need a place to park their frigging cars!! Most teachers don’t live in the city and are travelling from Jersey, Long Island, Bronxville etc!
If cops and firemen have designated parking spots, why shouldn’t teachers!!
You all don’t know what they go through!!
They have to leave hours earlier just to find a street parking spot, and most times a spot that is on the RIGHT side of the street(alternate street parking)!!They are not permitted to just leave the building to move their cars!
Therefore, I commend the school and police department for making things a little easier for those teachers that need a place to park their frigging cars!!

]]> By: glennQ http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42890 glennQ Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:36:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42890 I agree; those cars should be ticketed and towed... My car would be if I decided to park on a sidewalk. Look at those cars though... With the exception of that M-B SUV, it is Hyundi, Kia... econo-box galore. Those teachers are not getting rich teaching kids in Harlem... I agree; those cars should be ticketed and towed… My car would be if I decided to park on a sidewalk.
Look at those cars though… With the exception of that M-B SUV, it is Hyundi, Kia… econo-box galore. Those teachers are not getting rich teaching kids in Harlem…

]]> By: bikecommuter http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42801 bikecommuter Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:44:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42801 Walk past any police precinct and see that it's not just teachers--cops are all over the side walk as well. The teachers whose vehicles are in the pictures above appear to make some sort of effort to keep a large portion of the sidewalk clear. Around the police station at 182nd and Broadway, even sidewalk ramps are blocked by the police. Walk past any police precinct and see that it’s not just teachers–cops are all over the side walk as well. The teachers whose vehicles are in the pictures above appear to make some sort of effort to keep a large portion of the sidewalk clear. Around the police station at 182nd and Broadway, even sidewalk ramps are blocked by the police.

]]> By: rhubarbpie http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42640 rhubarbpie Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:22:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42640 There is really no defending this. This school is within very easy walking distance of the 1, which has pretty frequent service, and the B & C, as JF noted. If the rules were enforced, I'm sure that many of the teachers and other employees who drive in would easily manage on mass transit. I'm wondering if any of the teachers who read this -- assuming there are a few -- have thoughts about how to constructively change the thinking at individual schools (rather than at the union, which will take a ton of work, though it's important) so that principals and teachers are better citizens when it comes to this kind of illegal behavior. There is really no defending this. This school is within very easy walking distance of the 1, which has pretty frequent service, and the B & C, as JF noted. If the rules were enforced, I’m sure that many of the teachers and other employees who drive in would easily manage on mass transit.

I’m wondering if any of the teachers who read this — assuming there are a few — have thoughts about how to constructively change the thinking at individual schools (rather than at the union, which will take a ton of work, though it’s important) so that principals and teachers are better citizens when it comes to this kind of illegal behavior.

]]> By: mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42597 mork Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:23:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42597 Fine role models for our children. Fine role models for our children.

]]> By: mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42596 mork Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:22:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42596 Fine role models for our children. These teachers should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Fine role models for our children.

These teachers should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

]]> By: JF http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42575 JF Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:39:32 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42575 Thanks, Rich! Here's the Google Map of that area: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=P.S.+161&near=Manhattan,+New+York&fb=1&cid=40817587,-73953180,8533805993348470297&li=lmd&ll=40.818649,-73.95318&spn=0.007681,0.020084&z=16&om=1 You can see that it's a few blocks from the 125th and 137th Street stations on the #1 train and the 135th Street station on the B/C. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these teachers live a few blocks from other stops on these very train lines in Riverdale, Washington Heights or the Upper West Side. Thanks, Rich! Here’s the Google Map of that area:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=P.S.+161&near=Manhattan,+New+York&fb=1&cid=40817587,-73953180,8533805993348470297&li=lmd&ll=40.818649,-73.95318&spn=0.007681,0.020084&z=16&om=1

You can see that it’s a few blocks from the 125th and 137th Street stations on the #1 train and the 135th Street station on the B/C.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these teachers live a few blocks from other stops on these very train lines in Riverdale, Washington Heights or the Upper West Side.

]]> By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42546 BicyclesOnly Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:24:32 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42546 Thanks for sending these along Richard. I posted a few myself this morning, though they were curbside violations, not the more serious sidewalk parking you encountered: http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/post/index/3575 Weingarten doesn't know what she is talking about. Thanks for sending these along Richard. I posted a few myself this morning, though they were curbside violations, not the more serious sidewalk parking you encountered:

http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/post/index/3575

Weingarten doesn’t know what she is talking about.

]]> By: srock http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/comment-page-1/#comment-42543 srock Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:26:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/08/at-ps-161-in-harlem-the-sidewalk-is-the-parking-lot/#comment-42543 Biking on the sidewalk is a misdemeanor, and bikes get clipped regularly by the NYPD when they are parked on the sidewalk (http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/05/nypd-raid-nets-bikes-and-bystanders/). Yet apparently cars can drive AND park on the sidewalk with no repercussions. We live in a crazy world! Biking on the sidewalk is a misdemeanor, and bikes get clipped regularly by the NYPD when they are parked on the sidewalk (http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/05/nypd-raid-nets-bikes-and-bystanders/). Yet apparently cars can drive AND park on the sidewalk with no repercussions. We live in a crazy world!

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