Comments on: The Case Against Pull-in Angle Parking

By: Angus Grieve-Smith

Angus Grieve-Smith — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:22:27 +0000

I just noticed that there's back-in angle parking on Newtown Road near the Woodside Houses:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=11377&ie=UTF8&ll=40.754424,-73.911409&spn=0.001359,0.002511&t=k&z=19&om=0

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:10:47 +0000

Glenn, you don't have to leave Manhattan to find head-out angle parking. West 131st Street between Frederick Douglass Blvd and Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Blvd also has it. Interestingly, the google maps street view shows it angled head-out, but the satellite picture shows it angled head-in. They must have changed over recently, because I went by there today and was surprised to see it head-out.

By: Matt H

Matt H — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:00:51 +0000

I ride these blocks all the time, and I've gotta say I vastly prefer angle-parking of either variety over parallel parking.

As #10 recognized, with this kind of parking there are no door-zone concerns! You can ride within a foot of the parked cars safely.

Having the angle-parking be head-out would be a bonus. Head-in isn't so, so bad, though: although drivers backing out into traffic again may not see you, you can deduce their intentions, leastaways, by looking for white reverse lights.

By: asw

asw — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:32:24 +0000

One argument against angle parking of any sort: Pedestrians (in New York, at least) will cross the street at any point, not just at the intersection. As a woman, whenever I try to access the curb adjacent to a row of cars parked at an angle, I feel less safe. This could be over-paranoia, but I'm just not comfortable walking between parked cars, or especially parked vans where the height of the van overshadows the pedestrian. Parallel parking does not produce the same effect.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:22:48 +0000

This is a one way street now and all the parking on the other side of the street is the same head-in parking.

I like the idea of a bus lane, but there's really no problem with the current bus route on 96th.

There is TONS of surface parking within the superblocks in this area from the Park West Village and public housing - that's another post for another day...

By: vnm

vnm — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:36:11 +0000

You'll find these on streets that were widened during the "auto-topia" days of planning in the 1950s and '60s. Often where you see a tower-in-the-park superblock (like at W. 97th St. and millions of other places) you will see these. The streets were widened but there wasn't enough traffic to justify additional lanes, so they just added increased parking. The streets should be narrowed and returned to their former width. Give the space back to the "park" part of the tower-in-the-park idea.

By: Silus Grok

Silus Grok — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:24:29 +0000

I live in Salt Lake City on a block that features head-out angled parking. You drive down the street, pass the stall you've choose (first benefit: no worry on having to pull into a stall before even seeing it), and then back into your stall.

The stall is painted such that when you're ready to pull-out, you merge directly into the flow of traffic (second benefit: safety). This means that folks wishing to park head-in will face two issues: having to do a wide turn to overcome an angle counter to the flow of traffic and a stiff fine from the parking police, who patrol these areas well and enforce the head-out parking.

On our streets, the head-out parking also incorporates a bike lane.

As for the niche case of obese drivers: I fall into that category and find it difficult to turn in my seat... but I have no problem back into my stall. It's just a matter a mastering the technique.

The only problem with angle parking that we experience — whether it's head-in or head-out — is that during snow storms, the lines are often obscured. This translates into folks reverting to parallel parking, or, worse, faking it and all hell breaks loose.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:53:50 +0000

Jonathan: If someone has been searching for a parking space for a long time and sees (from their perspective) a head-in spot on the other side of the street, they will take it. They may not consider the risks they will face when leaving the space later - at that moment, they are just glad to find a place to park.

U-Turns are often not possible or legal on busy commercial "Main Streets" where angled parking is common, and the driver may think that by the time they go around the block, the spot will be taken. So they go for it. (This behavior would be especially common here in Newport, where many drivers are tourists who are both unaware of local laws and desperate for a parking spot.)

Anyone who is parked head-in at one of these spots must've pulled in from the opposite side of the road, so they are ripe for ticketing. But besides ticketing and a median, are there any other design mechanisms that can prevent this behavior?

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:33:40 +0000

Stephen, the Utah link mentions crossing the median to head in and suggests instead making a u-turn first. But why would your motorist friend consider such a maneuver? She'd have to back out, crossing the entire width of the near side traffic lane, in order to get going in either direction. It would take forever on a busy street, waiting for traffic to clear in both directions.

By: Hilary

Hilary — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:31:47 +0000

On a street that is overwide, angled parking reduces speeding. If you don't want to increase the number of parking spaces, make some nice neckdowns (or whatever they're called) at the corners, and even in the middle. With all the attention now on reducing congestion, I worry that we will inadvertently increase the speed of traffic. Less pollution but more terror and noise.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:20:24 +0000

One other concern with back-in angled parking that someone pointed out to me, which I didn't see mentioned in the report (though please correct me if it is there): On a two-way street, cars coming the other direction might head-in to a spot on the opposite side of the street, making it exceptionally dangerous when they back out to leave the parking spot.

There are two ways to stop this from happening: (1) install a median or (2) ticketing of anyone parked "head-in." Medians are not always plausible and enforcement can sometimes be spotty; are there other ways to stop this behavior through design?

By: Andy B from Jersey

Andy B from Jersey — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:00:59 +0000

I skimmed this fast at work but I think everyone missed another big plus about angled parking whether it's head-in or head-out. Look at the bicyclist's-eye view from the Nelson Nygaard report and you will notice that there is NO POSSIBILITY of the cyclist GETTING "DOORED!" Also notice all the space available to the right of the bike lane so cyclists can ride on the right side of the lane or maybe even a social two-abreast. Unfortunately NYC drivers will see this space as a passing lane. Head-out parking is the way to go if your gonna' do angled on-street parking and the Nelson Nygaard report points out all these benefits very clearly. Finally BicyclesOnly said: "The problem, of course, is people who can't drive well backwards (this includes obese people who can't turn much in the drivers' seat) will ignore the directive to back-in." Well what makes you think that these people could safely back there cars OUT of a "head-in" spot? Plus as someone noted earlier, all the stripes would face "down-traffic" for head-out parking instead of "up-traffic" for the standard head-in parking. This line angle change of 90 degrees would make it VERY difficult to park a car in the wrong dirrection.

By: Josh

Josh — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:59:59 +0000

Given the hazard posed by drivers backing out and unable to see what's behind them all that well, why wouldn't you bike down the left side of this block? That seems to make more sense, though I can't really tell from that picture what's on the other side of the street - is it more head-in/back-out parking?

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:52:06 +0000

My street in Washington, DC does head-out angle parking with no pavement markings--only signage, and it works pretty darn well. Of course parking enforcement in DC is handled by non-cops who are...shall we say...zealous in their pursuit of violators.

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:35:53 +0000

galvo, you are spot on in your comments about the danger zone behind trucks.

I never park head-in, even in parking lots. It kind of chafes, though, when I pass a spot, put on my reverse lights and prepare to turn, and all of a sudden someone heads into that very same spot.

By: galvo

galvo — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:51:02 +0000

The head out parking is always the safest, it was a requirement for at least one of the biggest local public utilities for all of their vehicles
(new york tel) many years ago, when they did focus on safety and driver safety instruction. bicyclesonly they would have to re-stripe the parking area as the angle is wrong for head out vs head in parking. in many municipalities you will get a ticket for parking head out , even though it is the proven safer method. i remember getting into a threat of a ticket with a parking officer for parking head out in a small village. Since it was company policy and company truck told them to go ahead. i have heard of private car drivers fighting tickets in court over the head in requirement in perpendicular striped spots.
it is impossible to back up many trucks and see behind you, something for bicyclist and peds to remember, do not put yourself in that danger zone. on the other hand IMO it is negligent of the driver if they have a able bodied passenger who is not assisting in the backing up. Back in the new york tel days, many trucks were considered two person trucks, due to the passenger backing requirement .
i believe the head in parking is the reason the Hampton's town has banned bicycles travelling on its main street.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:33:44 +0000

Correction: In the last paragraph, I meant to say back-in/head-out. Oops.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:31:42 +0000

For us non-NYC readers, this is a great Streetsblog post! While congestion pricing, for example, is not an issue in most cities and towns, the problems associated with head-in parking are - and it's great to see that some places have found a better way. One risk that might come with this type of parking is drivers blocking and backing up in the bike lane as they try to park, though this is probably better than drivers blindly backing out into the street.

I hail from Newport, RI - if you are familiar with the area at all, back-out/head-in angle parking would work perfectly on Lower Broadway, along with a bike lane for the significant number of bike riders in the neighborhood.

By: ddartley

ddartley — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:14:31 +0000

You'll often find this kind of parking space on streets near police precincts.

Even better, there are at least two precincts I know of where the lines are 50% on the street, and extend 50%--about five feet--onto the sidewalk, so cars park half on the sidewalk and half on the street. (Interestingly, all the cars have this funny piece of paper on their dashboards.)

I am pretty sure that that's well illegal, but since it's a favor for cops, and since the painting is done by another city agency, no one in any position of authority thinks about that.

By: daniel

daniel — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:07:44 +0000

I love it that 2 illegally parked vehicles (the black car and the white delivery van) show up on your google pic!

It seems there will always be more cars than parking spots - kinda like the drivers are constantly playing musical chairs...