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	<title>Comments on: Holiday Headlines</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Beach Holiday Guide</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-259921</link>
		<dc:creator>Beach Holiday Guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-259921</guid>
		<description>&quot;Alternative modes&quot; begs the question, alternative to what? It accepts cars are the dominant normal mode, and is even used to define the NYC bike/ped program in a city where bus and subway riders and pedestrians all dramatically outnumber drivers.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://beachholidayguide.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Beach Holiday Guide&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Alternative modes&#8221; begs the question, alternative to what? It accepts cars are the dominant normal mode, and is even used to define the NYC bike/ped program in a city where bus and subway riders and pedestrians all dramatically outnumber drivers.<br />
<a href="http://beachholidayguide.com" rel="nofollow">Beach Holiday Guide</a></p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42358</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42358</guid>
		<description>obs(treperous) simply does not understand the difference between criminal justice and public employment.  If a public employee abuses the public trust and doesn&#039;t like the discipline s/he can simply quit.  That&#039;s a little different from getting thrown in jail or fined.  

obs(treperous) also misses the distinction between labeling people based on their immutable characteristics as opposed to their behavior.  I am a strong supporter of protecting and expanding civil liberties, but disciplining public employees for cause has nothing to do with publicly labeling people by race or religion.

There is a serious problem with accountability among some public employees.  Certainly there are police officers who refuse to identify themselves in response to citizen inquiries for badge numbers even though required to do so.  We require NYPD to put the motto &quot;courtesy, prfessionalism, respect&quot; on all their vehicles; is it really so outrageous to suggest that the officers who betray this principle be forced to publicly acknowledge having done so?

While my proposal that placard abuse armbands be used in NYC was less than half-serious, there are certainly arguments in favor of it.  Crying &quot;Nazi&quot; is simply a way to ignore those arguments rather than responding to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>obs(treperous) simply does not understand the difference between criminal justice and public employment.  If a public employee abuses the public trust and doesn&#8217;t like the discipline s/he can simply quit.  That&#8217;s a little different from getting thrown in jail or fined.  </p>
<p>obs(treperous) also misses the distinction between labeling people based on their immutable characteristics as opposed to their behavior.  I am a strong supporter of protecting and expanding civil liberties, but disciplining public employees for cause has nothing to do with publicly labeling people by race or religion.</p>
<p>There is a serious problem with accountability among some public employees.  Certainly there are police officers who refuse to identify themselves in response to citizen inquiries for badge numbers even though required to do so.  We require NYPD to put the motto &#8220;courtesy, prfessionalism, respect&#8221; on all their vehicles; is it really so outrageous to suggest that the officers who betray this principle be forced to publicly acknowledge having done so?</p>
<p>While my proposal that placard abuse armbands be used in NYC was less than half-serious, there are certainly arguments in favor of it.  Crying &#8220;Nazi&#8221; is simply a way to ignore those arguments rather than responding to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42353</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42353</guid>
		<description>Obs,

As far as &quot;alternative modes&quot; are concerned, should Transportation Alternatives change their name?  

Most Americans don&#039;t see &quot;alternative modes&quot; (be they public transit or human powered) as a viable option to an automobile and in much of the country they are right.  Thinking about biking/walking, for example, as &quot;alternatives&quot; to car transport changes the current paradigm that considers those options only as &quot;recreation.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obs,</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;alternative modes&#8221; are concerned, should Transportation Alternatives change their name?  </p>
<p>Most Americans don&#8217;t see &#8220;alternative modes&#8221; (be they public transit or human powered) as a viable option to an automobile and in much of the country they are right.  Thinking about biking/walking, for example, as &#8220;alternatives&#8221; to car transport changes the current paradigm that considers those options only as &#8220;recreation.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42351</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42351</guid>
		<description>Obs,

Come on.  This is not for ex-cons or any permanent labeling of people.  Its a (temporary) punishment for misconduct.  I am not sure if like it myself but comparing it to Nazi Germany is silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obs,</p>
<p>Come on.  This is not for ex-cons or any permanent labeling of people.  Its a (temporary) punishment for misconduct.  I am not sure if like it myself but comparing it to Nazi Germany is silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Obs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42349</link>
		<dc:creator>Obs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42349</guid>
		<description>&quot;Alternative modes&quot; begs the question, alternative to what?  It accepts cars are the dominant normal mode, and is even used to define the NYC bike/ped program in a city where bus and subway riders and pedestrians all dramatically outnumber drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Alternative modes&#8221; begs the question, alternative to what?  It accepts cars are the dominant normal mode, and is even used to define the NYC bike/ped program in a city where bus and subway riders and pedestrians all dramatically outnumber drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Obs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42348</link>
		<dc:creator>Obs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42348</guid>
		<description>BicyclesOnly - So then give an arm-band of varying colors to all minor criminals - and maybe bright T-shirts for convicts?  You&#039;re on a really slippery slope and too stupid to see it.  

Why don&#039;t you write to the Thai consulate and voice your approval for last year&#039;s military coup while you&#039;re at it.

People who don&#039;t understand their rights or the consequences of mindlessly trample on those of others are the reason someone like Hitler could get elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BicyclesOnly &#8211; So then give an arm-band of varying colors to all minor criminals &#8211; and maybe bright T-shirts for convicts?  You&#8217;re on a really slippery slope and too stupid to see it.  </p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you write to the Thai consulate and voice your approval for last year&#8217;s military coup while you&#8217;re at it.</p>
<p>People who don&#8217;t understand their rights or the consequences of mindlessly trample on those of others are the reason someone like Hitler could get elected.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42342</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42342</guid>
		<description>Obs(treperous):

No need for the history lesson; the issue is whether public employees that engage in undeniable wrongdoing should be subject to some form of public remonstration.  I think they should.

Government employees hold a position of trust with the public.  In the case of government employees that abuse their parking placards, they are taking resources set aside for a specified public use and converting them to their own personal benefit.  

Yes, certainly their vehicles should be ticketed or towed as the law provides, just like any private citizen that parks illegally.  To fail to do so would only compund the corruption.  But that does nothing to redress the abuse of the public trust.  Forcing illegally-parking governemtn employees to publicly admit that they are an &quot;uncivil servant&quot; perhaps does.  

Your veiled reference to Nazi Germany is so far off point that I don&#039;t even know where to begin rebutting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obs(treperous):</p>
<p>No need for the history lesson; the issue is whether public employees that engage in undeniable wrongdoing should be subject to some form of public remonstration.  I think they should.</p>
<p>Government employees hold a position of trust with the public.  In the case of government employees that abuse their parking placards, they are taking resources set aside for a specified public use and converting them to their own personal benefit.  </p>
<p>Yes, certainly their vehicles should be ticketed or towed as the law provides, just like any private citizen that parks illegally.  To fail to do so would only compund the corruption.  But that does nothing to redress the abuse of the public trust.  Forcing illegally-parking governemtn employees to publicly admit that they are an &#8220;uncivil servant&#8221; perhaps does.  </p>
<p>Your veiled reference to Nazi Germany is so far off point that I don&#8217;t even know where to begin rebutting it.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42340</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42340</guid>
		<description>Obs,

What&#039;s wrong with the term &quot;alternative modes&quot;?  Although I&#039;m not sure how I feel about the arm-bands, I think there&#039;s a huge difference between making someone wear something as a shame punishment and &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;yellow badges&lt;/a&gt;.  It sounds like an &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Reductio ad Hitlerum&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obs,</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wrong with the term &#8220;alternative modes&#8221;?  Although I&#8217;m not sure how I feel about the arm-bands, I think there&#8217;s a huge difference between making someone wear something as a shame punishment and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge" rel="nofollow">yellow badges</a>.  It sounds like an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum" rel="nofollow">Reductio ad Hitlerum</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Obs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42320</link>
		<dc:creator>Obs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42320</guid>
		<description>SB - Please discard the appalling usage: &quot;alternative modes.&quot;

BicyclesOnly, do you really want to start making certain people wear arm-bands?  You might want to do some superficial reading into mid-20th Century history to see what kind of company you&#039;re in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SB &#8211; Please discard the appalling usage: &#8220;alternative modes.&#8221;</p>
<p>BicyclesOnly, do you really want to start making certain people wear arm-bands?  You might want to do some superficial reading into mid-20th Century history to see what kind of company you&#8217;re in.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42308</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 02:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42308</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still looking forward to your take on Ed Skyler, who&#039;s now Janette Sadik-Khan and Rit Aggarwala&#039;s boss.  He doesn&#039;t ride his bike to work, does he?  But he may not promote as much parking as Doctoroff did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still looking forward to your take on Ed Skyler, who&#8217;s now Janette Sadik-Khan and Rit Aggarwala&#8217;s boss.  He doesn&#8217;t ride his bike to work, does he?  But he may not promote as much parking as Doctoroff did.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy B from Jersey</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42302</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy B from Jersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42302</guid>
		<description>Woah!  

That&#039;s why George Warrington stepped down as director of NJTransit last year.  It&#039;s a shame to loose a guy like that so young.  He was a pretty smart guy that impressed me during a field trip I was on that went to NJTransit&#039;s headquarters last year.  I didn&#039;t agree with everything that he said but he opened my eyes to a number of ideas about transit that I never even thought about in the 1/2 hour he talked with us.

He will be missed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woah!  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why George Warrington stepped down as director of NJTransit last year.  It&#8217;s a shame to loose a guy like that so young.  He was a pretty smart guy that impressed me during a field trip I was on that went to NJTransit&#8217;s headquarters last year.  I didn&#8217;t agree with everything that he said but he opened my eyes to a number of ideas about transit that I never even thought about in the 1/2 hour he talked with us.</p>
<p>He will be missed.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42294</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42294</guid>
		<description>From the Brooklyn CB2 resolution, as quoted in the &lt;i&gt;Eagle&lt;/i&gt; article:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In addition, all tolls into Manhattan from anywhere else should be the same, so that no commuter pays more than any other and so that all commuters face the same set of basic financial incentives not to drive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That was kind of the idea of the toll deduction for congestion pricing, wasn&#039;t it?  It&#039;s really annoying how congestion pricing opponents shift their baselines.  You can&#039;t charge everyone the same thing to go into Manhattan, because it&#039;s unfair to people who now drive across the &quot;free&quot; bridges, but you can&#039;t put a toll on the &quot;free&quot; bridges because that&#039;s unfair to them too.  Aren&#039;t there some toll tunnel users getting pissed about that somewhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Brooklyn CB2 resolution, as quoted in the <i>Eagle</i> article:</p>
<blockquote><p>In addition, all tolls into Manhattan from anywhere else should be the same, so that no commuter pays more than any other and so that all commuters face the same set of basic financial incentives not to drive.</p></blockquote>
<p>That was kind of the idea of the toll deduction for congestion pricing, wasn&#8217;t it?  It&#8217;s really annoying how congestion pricing opponents shift their baselines.  You can&#8217;t charge everyone the same thing to go into Manhattan, because it&#8217;s unfair to people who now drive across the &#8220;free&#8221; bridges, but you can&#8217;t put a toll on the &#8220;free&#8221; bridges because that&#8217;s unfair to them too.  Aren&#8217;t there some toll tunnel users getting pissed about that somewhere?</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42285</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42285</guid>
		<description>Fixed it--sorry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fixed it&#8211;sorry!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42282</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42282</guid>
		<description>BicyclesOnly: Your flickr link is not publically viewable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BicyclesOnly: Your flickr link is not publically viewable.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42274</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42274</guid>
		<description>Bangkok Placard Abuse: Here&#039;s the armband design for NYC gov&#039;t employees caught abusing placards:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2158263533/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bangkok Placard Abuse: Here&#8217;s the armband design for NYC gov&#8217;t employees caught abusing placards:  <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2158263533/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2158263533/</a></p>
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		<title>By: socialscientist</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/comment-page-1/#comment-42271</link>
		<dc:creator>socialscientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/02/holiday-headlines-3/#comment-42271</guid>
		<description>As usual, you have found all the pertinent items. Thanks for your great work.

As of yesterday, add Den Bosch, Netherlands to the list of towns with free public transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, you have found all the pertinent items. Thanks for your great work.</p>
<p>As of yesterday, add Den Bosch, Netherlands to the list of towns with free public transit.</p>
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