Comments on: S.I. Ped Killings Cause Some to Ask, What’s an “Accident?” http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: galvo http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42299 galvo Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:54:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42299 response to glenn concerning points and medical bills. "Injuries and Fatalities Noted on Tickets: As of Aug. 1, 2007, traffic tickets include a space for issuing officers to note whether the violation resulted in a death or serious injury." from AAA cr and travel mag, http://tinyurl.com/3c3wte as fart as medical bills, no fault would be th insurarance, now if they happen to be driving one of those Pennsylvania fraudulent registered vehicles, you now are dealing with a uninsured motorist, a lawyer would be able to give a answer, but basically imo it means if your injuries are severe as defined by the no fault system you will be screwed , since there is no insurance company or usually any assets to collect from. if you are a driver with auto insurance you can protect against this by getting supplement under/uninsured protection. maybe a home owner /rental policy would help out here too. again i wish a local lawyer would clarify some of this, it may make peds to take action against the fraud penn plates. response to glenn concerning points and medical bills.
“Injuries and Fatalities Noted on Tickets: As of Aug. 1, 2007, traffic tickets include a space for issuing officers to note whether the violation resulted in a death or serious injury.” from AAA cr and travel mag,
http://tinyurl.com/3c3wte
as fart as medical bills, no fault would be th insurarance, now if they happen to be driving one of those Pennsylvania fraudulent registered vehicles, you now are dealing with a uninsured motorist, a lawyer would be able to give a answer, but basically imo it means if your injuries are severe as defined by the no fault system you will be screwed , since there is no insurance company or usually any assets to collect from. if you are a driver with auto insurance you can protect against this by getting supplement under/uninsured protection. maybe a home owner /rental policy would help out here too.
again i wish a local lawyer would clarify some of this, it may make peds to take action against the fraud penn plates.

]]> By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42267 BicyclesOnly Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:14:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42267 There was a constant stream of pedestrian (and motorist) injuries and fatalities at the intersection of York and 79th up until about 8 years ago, when the introduced leading pedestrian intervals. Now that intersection is probably a little safter than those at 79th and First or Second. There's also an LPI on Madison and 96th, it makes the intersection much easier to cross, especially for slower pedestrians like kids and seniors. My impression is that the Weinshall administration would not install LPI's until the death rate reached some outrageous number. What is the "new" DoT's policy in this regard? Have any new LPI's been installed since JSK took office? There was a constant stream of pedestrian (and motorist) injuries and fatalities at the intersection of York and 79th up until about 8 years ago, when the introduced leading pedestrian intervals. Now that intersection is probably a little safter than those at 79th and First or Second. There’s also an LPI on Madison and 96th, it makes the intersection much easier to cross, especially for slower pedestrians like kids and seniors. My impression is that the Weinshall administration would not install LPI’s until the death rate reached some outrageous number. What is the “new” DoT’s policy in this regard? Have any new LPI’s been installed since JSK took office?

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42197 Angus Grieve-Smith Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:22:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42197 <blockquote>Does someone get automatic points on their insurance if they are in a crash with a pedestrian?</blockquote> Not if they've purchased <a href="http://www.irmi.com/Expert/Articles/2006/Head12.aspx" rel="nofollow">accident forgivenness</a>.

Does someone get automatic points on their insurance if they are in a crash with a pedestrian?

Not if they’ve purchased accident forgivenness.

]]> By: Glenn McAnanama http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42195 Glenn McAnanama Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:37:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42195 What about insurance? Does someone get automatic points on their insurance if they are in a crash with a pedestrian? Aren't they responsible for all the medical bills? I think any accident involving the injury/death of a pedestrian, cyclist or other motorist should automatically trigger a large increase in insurance rates to make driving almost unaffordable to the average person (like $20k+ per year) AND an automatic re-test of their driving ability to see if they should even have a license in the first place. What about insurance? Does someone get automatic points on their insurance if they are in a crash with a pedestrian? Aren’t they responsible for all the medical bills?

I think any accident involving the injury/death of a pedestrian, cyclist or other motorist should automatically trigger a large increase in insurance rates to make driving almost unaffordable to the average person (like $20k+ per year) AND an automatic re-test of their driving ability to see if they should even have a license in the first place.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42185 Angus Grieve-Smith Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:49:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42185 <blockquote>How long can this thread go, BTW, before some troll brings up the idea of building tunnels for pedestrians to use instead of crossing streets at grade level?</blockquote> I hate that! But in fairness, all the people I've met who say things like that do it out of genuine concern for pedestrian safety. A friend of mine who doesn't own a car even said it to me the other day. In my experience, it takes just a few minutes to explain why that won't work to someone who actually cares.

How long can this thread go, BTW, before some troll brings up the idea of building tunnels for pedestrians to use instead of crossing streets at grade level?

I hate that! But in fairness, all the people I’ve met who say things like that do it out of genuine concern for pedestrian safety. A friend of mine who doesn’t own a car even said it to me the other day. In my experience, it takes just a few minutes to explain why that won’t work to someone who actually cares.

]]> By: Christine Berthet http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42183 Christine Berthet Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:55:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42183 The owner of a 5000 pounds of steel gunning down at 30 miles an hour is RESPONSIBLE for operating an inherently deadly tool. (think chain saw or gun ) A recent study by Hunter college students http://multimedia.nydailynews.com/pdf/2007/11/14/Driving_distracted_study_Nov_2007.pdf show that 25% of automobilitss Drive While Distracted and these same people are in fact most prone to be distracted by more than one activity (cell phone , smoking , drinking, eating grooming ) an indication that they are fundamentally not disciplined and scornful of the law. The DWD need to be redefined as Driving While Distracted . Any crash where the driver has proper line of sight and claim not "seing " a pedestrian should be under the same penalties as if driving while drunk . After a crash, they certainly should not get their license and car back until they have passed a very stringent medical test on attention deficit disorder and a test on rules of the road concerning pedestrians. The owner of a 5000 pounds of steel gunning down at 30 miles an hour is RESPONSIBLE for operating an inherently deadly tool. (think chain saw or gun )

A recent study by Hunter college students http://multimedia.nydailynews.com/pdf/2007/11/14/Driving_distracted_study_Nov_2007.pdf
show that 25% of automobilitss Drive While Distracted and these same people are in fact most prone to be distracted by more than one activity (cell phone , smoking , drinking, eating grooming ) an indication that they are fundamentally not disciplined and scornful of the law.

The DWD need to be redefined as Driving While Distracted . Any crash where the driver has proper line of sight and claim not “seing ” a pedestrian should be under the same penalties as if driving while drunk .

After a crash, they certainly should not get their license and car back until they have passed a very stringent medical test on attention deficit disorder and a test on rules of the road concerning pedestrians.

]]> By: Louis http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42180 Louis Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:53:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42180 Hunter planning student living in paris says, "I think every crossing signal of any import in Paris, and possibly every one, has a leading pedestrian signal." Hunter planning student living in paris says, “I think every crossing signal of any import in Paris, and possibly every one, has a leading pedestrian signal.”

]]> By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42175 Doc Barnett Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:16:24 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42175 What the seemingly unassailable "forgive" position (quoted in the post, and turning up in many comment threads on similar stories here) disguises is that seeking the truth is not a refusal to forgive. To the contrary, knowing the truth is a requirement for meaningful forgiveness. A whitewashed story and the expectation that a bereaved should immediately "work through" any desire for explanation or accountability, this well-worn path makes for good emotional theatre but doesn't say much for appreciation of human life. That people are so eager to move on (in their cars) to the next unnecessary, fatal crash is the greatest tragedy. What the seemingly unassailable “forgive” position (quoted in the post, and turning up in many comment threads on similar stories here) disguises is that seeking the truth is not a refusal to forgive. To the contrary, knowing the truth is a requirement for meaningful forgiveness. A whitewashed story and the expectation that a bereaved should immediately “work through” any desire for explanation or accountability, this well-worn path makes for good emotional theatre but doesn’t say much for appreciation of human life. That people are so eager to move on (in their cars) to the next unnecessary, fatal crash is the greatest tragedy.

]]> By: socialscientist http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42160 socialscientist Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:36:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42160 We should always say "traffic collision" instead of "traffic accident"... We should always say “traffic collision” instead of “traffic accident”…

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42153 Larry Littlefield Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:28:44 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42153 I was told in driver's ed 30 years ago that there are no accidents. There is one thing I worry about when driving --not seeing a cyclist or ped on a dark, rainy night. Very few cyclists have lights and bright, reflective clothing. Fortunately, because most of my auto trips are discretionary, I am generally able to avoid night driving, but during this time of year one cannot avoid it completely. I was told in driver’s ed 30 years ago that there are no accidents.

There is one thing I worry about when driving –not seeing a cyclist or ped on a dark, rainy night. Very few cyclists have lights and bright, reflective clothing.

Fortunately, because most of my auto trips are discretionary, I am generally able to avoid night driving, but during this time of year one cannot avoid it completely.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42143 Jonathan Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:41:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42143 fdr, I think they have one of those on 9th Ave & 57th Street. I always see the walk light to cross 57th go on before the 9th Ave light turns green. How long can this thread go, BTW, before some troll brings up the idea of building tunnels for pedestrians to use instead of crossing streets at grade level? fdr, I think they have one of those on 9th Ave & 57th Street. I always see the walk light to cross 57th go on before the 9th Ave light turns green.

How long can this thread go, BTW, before some troll brings up the idea of building tunnels for pedestrians to use instead of crossing streets at grade level?

]]> By: fdr http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42140 fdr Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:17:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42140 Giving pedestrians a head start before the light turns green is what the traffic engineers call "Leading Pedestrian Intervals". DOT has installed them in some places, giving peds a few seconds head start. Of course, some drivers think they can go when the peds start crossing, and if the first car doesn't move, the cars behind start honking. But eventually they get used to it. Giving pedestrians a head start before the light turns green is what the traffic engineers call “Leading Pedestrian Intervals”. DOT has installed them in some places, giving peds a few seconds head start. Of course, some drivers think they can go when the peds start crossing, and if the first car doesn’t move, the cars behind start honking. But eventually they get used to it.

]]> By: DangerCrossing http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42136 DangerCrossing Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42136 The city's traffic signals seem to setup a dangerous race between peds and cars to the crosswalk. As WALK and GREEN come on in sync drivers & peds both see a visually clear crosswalk. I've always wondered if offsetting lights so peds would get a headstart would diffuse some of these crosswalk conflicts. In other words WALK would come on for a few seconds while all lanes are still RED. I think this would reduce the urge for drivers to accelerate into the crosswalk to try and beat foot traffic. The city’s traffic signals seem to setup a dangerous race between peds and cars to the crosswalk. As WALK and GREEN come on in sync drivers & peds both see a visually clear crosswalk.

I’ve always wondered if offsetting lights so peds would get a headstart would diffuse some of these crosswalk conflicts. In other words WALK would come on for a few seconds while all lanes are still RED.

I think this would reduce the urge for drivers to accelerate into the crosswalk to try and beat foot traffic.

]]> By: Glenn McAnanama http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42130 Glenn McAnanama Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:56:00 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42130 I know this intersection well, but couldn't comment on this particular incident since I don't know the particulars. What I do know is most people walking and driving around this area are locals, similar to the victim and driver in this case. Both Forest and Bement at that intersection are both busy two way streets with lots of people turning there. Drivers are mostly running daily errands and not driving particularly fast or aggressive. What I have observed at this location and others are a high percentage of distracted drivers - eating, drinking, talking on cell phones. I really think in any "crash", the police have an obligation to get any eyewitnesses or passengers to describe what was going on inside the car prior to the crash. Get detailed statements of any potential distractions that prevented the driver from correctly proceeding through an intersection. I know this intersection well, but couldn’t comment on this particular incident since I don’t know the particulars.

What I do know is most people walking and driving around this area are locals, similar to the victim and driver in this case.

Both Forest and Bement at that intersection are both busy two way streets with lots of people turning there.

Drivers are mostly running daily errands and not driving particularly fast or aggressive.

What I have observed at this location and others are a high percentage of distracted drivers – eating, drinking, talking on cell phones.

I really think in any “crash”, the police have an obligation to get any eyewitnesses or passengers to describe what was going on inside the car prior to the crash. Get detailed statements of any potential distractions that prevented the driver from correctly proceeding through an intersection.

]]> By: Mark http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42126 Mark Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:23:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42126 While we're apportioning responsibility or blame to drivers and peds, let's acknowledge a third party operating here, and that's the DOT. Traffic signals that don't allow peds adequate time to cross are a major cause of "accidents." And let's not forget inadequate or missing medians and the failure to use bollards and other protective barriers where they're clearly needed. While we’re apportioning responsibility or blame to drivers and peds, let’s acknowledge a third party operating here, and that’s the DOT. Traffic signals that don’t allow peds adequate time to cross are a major cause of “accidents.” And let’s not forget inadequate or missing medians and the failure to use bollards and other protective barriers where they’re clearly needed.

]]> By: Konrad http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/comment-page-1/#comment-42124 Konrad Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:08:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/killing-of-si-minister-has-some-asking-whats-an-accident/#comment-42124 Obviously pedestrians need to look out for their own safety...you can't trust the motorists to look out for you, so you have to be careful and exercise judgement when crossing the street. That said, it is the legal responsibility of motorists to NOT HIT anyone or anything. So many motorists do not seem to understand this! If you are making a turn, there is no excuse for not doing so slowly and making sure the crosswalk is clear before driving through it. Any action to the contrary is NOT an accident. I was almost hit by a cab recently while crossing north on E.79th St. in the crosswalk with the walk signal. A southbound cab making a left onto 79th nearly ran right into me as if I wasn't there. I (stupidly) froze and luckily the cabbie slammed on his brakes and my demise was avoided. I don't think his failure to yeild to my right of way is an "accident." Obviously pedestrians need to look out for their own safety…you can’t trust the motorists to look out for you, so you have to be careful and exercise judgement when crossing the street.

That said, it is the legal responsibility of motorists to NOT HIT anyone or anything. So many motorists do not seem to understand this! If you are making a turn, there is no excuse for not doing so slowly and making sure the crosswalk is clear before driving through it. Any action to the contrary is NOT an accident.

I was almost hit by a cab recently while crossing north on E.79th St. in the crosswalk with the walk signal. A southbound cab making a left onto 79th nearly ran right into me as if I wasn’t there. I (stupidly) froze and luckily the cabbie slammed on his brakes and my demise was avoided. I don’t think his failure to yeild to my right of way is an “accident.”

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