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	<title>Comments on: Disney&#8217;s Highway to Hell</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:34:07 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42184</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42184</guid>
		<description>Really too funny...now we know where DOT employees received their education!  Safe driving speed 85 mph (versus 25 mph in reality), radiant eyes, infrared windshields, elevator highways, and our magic carpet to a perfect future!  I guess obesity wasn&#039;t a public problem back in 1958.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really too funny...now we know where DOT employees received their education!  Safe driving speed 85 mph (versus 25 mph in reality), radiant eyes, infrared windshields, elevator highways, and our magic carpet to a perfect future!  I guess obesity wasn't a public problem back in 1958.</p>
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		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42176</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42176</guid>
		<description>Wow, people are extraordinarily lazy. Computer Automation can only go so far to make the highway&#039;s capacity higher. Just look at RER A in Paris. In about a year though the highway will be clogged. However if you build a train line, it will be clogged but probably cheaper.

But nice tunneling. Maybe that machine can get the Second Avenue Subway Built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, people are extraordinarily lazy. Computer Automation can only go so far to make the highway's capacity higher. Just look at RER A in Paris. In about a year though the highway will be clogged. However if you build a train line, it will be clogged but probably cheaper.</p>
<p>But nice tunneling. Maybe that machine can get the Second Avenue Subway Built.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Piontek</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42165</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Piontek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42165</guid>
		<description>OK, most of that is terrifying, but I kinda liked the cantilevered skyways in the mountains ... doesn&#039;t need to be for cars, you know, could be nice for rail service...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, most of that is terrifying, but I kinda liked the cantilevered skyways in the mountains ... doesn't need to be for cars, you know, could be nice for rail service...</p>
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		<title>By: ironic</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42155</link>
		<dc:creator>ironic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42155</guid>
		<description>How&#039;s this for irony:  Disney put out the movie &quot;Cars&quot; a couple of years back, which is all about how a small town dies when the old, winding highway that goes through the town is replaced with a modern, new, straight expressway that is miles away from the town.  I&#039;m sure Disney would be none too pleased to see this new take on expressways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How's this for irony:  Disney put out the movie "Cars" a couple of years back, which is all about how a small town dies when the old, winding highway that goes through the town is replaced with a modern, new, straight expressway that is miles away from the town.  I'm sure Disney would be none too pleased to see this new take on expressways.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42154</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42154</guid>
		<description>This would give Le Corbusier a bigger hard on than an unclad George Washington Bridge.

Here&#039;s another retro futuristic cartoon about the automobile...
YouTube: Car of Tomorrow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTjof5fqQo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This would give Le Corbusier a bigger hard on than an unclad George Washington Bridge.</p>
<p>Here's another retro futuristic cartoon about the automobile...<br />
YouTube: Car of Tomorrow<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTjof5fqQo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTjof5fqQo</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charles Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42149</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42149</guid>
		<description>I think the fantasy should also include more free time.  Live in a walkable neighborhood instead of a sprawl suburb, and the money you save is enough to let you work one or two days less per week.  We need to show people the Venice Plaza and people who have plenty of free time to spend in the plaza. 

That was also part of the 1950s vision of the future: everyone expected that automation would continue to shorten work hours and increase free time.  

In reality, Americans work longer hours now than they did in the 1950s.  This is another failing of the consumer economy: we spend so much on more stuff that we have to overwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the fantasy should also include more free time.  Live in a walkable neighborhood instead of a sprawl suburb, and the money you save is enough to let you work one or two days less per week.  We need to show people the Venice Plaza and people who have plenty of free time to spend in the plaza. </p>
<p>That was also part of the 1950s vision of the future: everyone expected that automation would continue to shorten work hours and increase free time.  </p>
<p>In reality, Americans work longer hours now than they did in the 1950s.  This is another failing of the consumer economy: we spend so much on more stuff that we have to overwork.</p>
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		<title>By: zombie</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42147</link>
		<dc:creator>zombie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42147</guid>
		<description>I want to live in that world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to live in that world.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42133</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42133</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great question steely.  It&#039;s an uphill battle because car companies spend millions marketing their vision happiness behind that wheel that is not at all like reality.  However, there is nothing mainstream out there marketing a vision of happy people walking, bicycling, and taking transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's a great question steely.  It's an uphill battle because car companies spend millions marketing their vision happiness behind that wheel that is not at all like reality.  However, there is nothing mainstream out there marketing a vision of happy people walking, bicycling, and taking transit.</p>
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		<title>By: steely</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42131</link>
		<dc:creator>steely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42131</guid>
		<description>charlie,

yes, but how do you sell that? &quot;walking, biking and transit&quot; and &quot;human scale communities&quot; needs to be packaged in a gold box with a big red silk bow and handed to america with a vanna white smile.  

here are some touchstones that such a dream might tap: a venice piazza, san francisco trolley, sesame street, block party, a european bicycle vacation, a street like Cheers &quot;where everybody knows your name&quot;. have you seen that Kingsford charcoal commercial where everyone is in a traffic jam and then everyone just gives up and starts grilling and chilling? http://www.methodstudios.com/project/960.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charlie,</p>
<p>yes, but how do you sell that? "walking, biking and transit" and "human scale communities" needs to be packaged in a gold box with a big red silk bow and handed to america with a vanna white smile.  </p>
<p>here are some touchstones that such a dream might tap: a venice piazza, san francisco trolley, sesame street, block party, a european bicycle vacation, a street like Cheers "where everybody knows your name". have you seen that Kingsford charcoal commercial where everyone is in a traffic jam and then everyone just gives up and starts grilling and chilling? <a href="http://www.methodstudios.com/project/960.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.methodstudios.com/project/960.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42128</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42128</guid>
		<description>I think the new American dream is living in a place where people walk, bike, and take transit, and need cars very infrequently; communities that are of a human scale, where public places are dominated by people and trees and not parking lots, expressways, and cars.

There are places like this in America, thankfully.  Most of them developed before people starting worshiping the automobile as the solution to all problems.  I think we&#039;re slowly moving back towards this way of living, but we&#039;ve got a long way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the new American dream is living in a place where people walk, bike, and take transit, and need cars very infrequently; communities that are of a human scale, where public places are dominated by people and trees and not parking lots, expressways, and cars.</p>
<p>There are places like this in America, thankfully.  Most of them developed before people starting worshiping the automobile as the solution to all problems.  I think we're slowly moving back towards this way of living, but we've got a long way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: steely</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42116</link>
		<dc:creator>steely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42116</guid>
		<description>Angus, that is why progressive movements fail.  People don&#039;t want &quot;reality&quot; (whatever that is).  what a bummer! They want a compelling aspirational narrative with a little magic and spectacle thrown in. 

the existentialists have this notion of &quot;auto projecting&quot; (double entendre!) -- how people are constantly moving forward toward a better future.  the act of shopping and the act of driving are similar in this way. probably somethign to do with our eons of hunter/gathering and nomadic living. 

if cars and consumption are not it, then what is the new american dream?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angus, that is why progressive movements fail.  People don't want "reality" (whatever that is).  what a bummer! They want a compelling aspirational narrative with a little magic and spectacle thrown in. </p>
<p>the existentialists have this notion of "auto projecting" (double entendre!) -- how people are constantly moving forward toward a better future.  the act of shopping and the act of driving are similar in this way. probably somethign to do with our eons of hunter/gathering and nomadic living. </p>
<p>if cars and consumption are not it, then what is the new american dream?</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42111</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42111</guid>
		<description>Speaking of architecture, did anyone notice that London&#039;s Millenium Dome appeared at 6:18?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of architecture, did anyone notice that London's Millenium Dome appeared at 6:18?</p>
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		<title>By: Anne (www.sustainableflatbush.org)</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42109</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne (www.sustainableflatbush.org)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42109</guid>
		<description>Corbusier and Niemeyer (Brasilia&#039;s chief architect) were contemporaries and worked together on several projects including the UN Headquarters; hence the resemblance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corbusier and Niemeyer (Brasilia's chief architect) were contemporaries and worked together on several projects including the UN Headquarters; hence the resemblance.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42108</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42108</guid>
		<description>In fact, you can argue that the suburban magic carpet fantasy was created in response to the Industrial Revolution-era fantasy of urban living through efficient machines.  The limits of those efficient machines were shown by dystopias from H.G. Wells, Fritz Lang and Charlie Chaplin.  The fantasies created in response were the beginnings of the Fantasy genre: George Macdonald, Frank Baum, J.R.R. Tolkien.

In the 1950s and 1960s you had a resurgence of the machine-age urban fantasy in the science fiction of Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke: cities that covered of planets!  You also had movies that glorified cities: &lt;i&gt;On the Town&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Roman Holiday&lt;/i&gt;, and &lt;i&gt;Breakfast at Tiffany&#039;s&lt;/i&gt;, for example.  In response you had more pastoral stuff: Led Zeppelin, Piers Anthony, etc. and all the Sixties back-to-the-land hippies - people might not like to see Heinlein characterized as a hippie, but he had back-to-the-land fantasies.

You also had suburban home/car-of-the-future stuff like this Disney film and &lt;a href=&quot;http://video.aol.com/video/tv-the-jetsons-janes-driving-lesson/1851631&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jane Jetson&#039;s Driving Lesson&lt;/a&gt;.  It&#039;s essentially a compromise between the city and country fantasies: Gregory Peck commuting from his home in the Shire to his job on Trantor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, you can argue that the suburban magic carpet fantasy was created in response to the Industrial Revolution-era fantasy of urban living through efficient machines.  The limits of those efficient machines were shown by dystopias from H.G. Wells, Fritz Lang and Charlie Chaplin.  The fantasies created in response were the beginnings of the Fantasy genre: George Macdonald, Frank Baum, J.R.R. Tolkien.</p>
<p>In the 1950s and 1960s you had a resurgence of the machine-age urban fantasy in the science fiction of Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke: cities that covered of planets!  You also had movies that glorified cities: <i>On the Town</i>, <i>Roman Holiday</i>, and <i>Breakfast at Tiffany's</i>, for example.  In response you had more pastoral stuff: Led Zeppelin, Piers Anthony, etc. and all the Sixties back-to-the-land hippies - people might not like to see Heinlein characterized as a hippie, but he had back-to-the-land fantasies.</p>
<p>You also had suburban home/car-of-the-future stuff like this Disney film and <a href="http://video.aol.com/video/tv-the-jetsons-janes-driving-lesson/1851631" rel="nofollow">Jane Jetson's Driving Lesson</a>.  It's essentially a compromise between the city and country fantasies: Gregory Peck commuting from his home in the Shire to his job on Trantor.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42107</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42107</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;so, streetsbloggers, what is your alternative story? how would you make livable streets as enticing as a magic carpet?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Good point, Paul, but how can reality ever compete with fantasy?  Creating a new fantay to replace the old one is problematic: if people believe the fantasy, they can get carried away in the other direction, and if things don&#039;t turn out like the enticing fantasy you spin, there can be a backlash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>so, streetsbloggers, what is your alternative story? how would you make livable streets as enticing as a magic carpet?</p></blockquote>
<p>Good point, Paul, but how can reality ever compete with fantasy?  Creating a new fantay to replace the old one is problematic: if people believe the fantasy, they can get carried away in the other direction, and if things don't turn out like the enticing fantasy you spin, there can be a backlash.</p>
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		<title>By: Boogiedown</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42106</link>
		<dc:creator>Boogiedown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42106</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, Jose...I was thinking more of propaganda to the masses, but bingo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You're right, Jose...I was thinking more of propaganda to the masses, but bingo!</p>
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		<title>By: steely</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42105</link>
		<dc:creator>steely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42105</guid>
		<description>the film ends with:

&quot;[the highway] will be our magic carpet to new hopes, new dreams, and a better way of life.”

so, streetsbloggers, what is your alternative story?  how would you make livable streets as enticing as a magic carpet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the film ends with:</p>
<p>"[the highway] will be our magic carpet to new hopes, new dreams, and a better way of life.”</p>
<p>so, streetsbloggers, what is your alternative story?  how would you make livable streets as enticing as a magic carpet?</p>
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		<title>By: Jose</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42104</guid>
		<description>Boogiedown, some of this is also remarkably similar to Le Corbusier.  The &quot;city&quot; looks like the Voisin Plan of three decades earlier and that house looks a lot like Villa Savoye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boogiedown, some of this is also remarkably similar to Le Corbusier.  The "city" looks like the Voisin Plan of three decades earlier and that house looks a lot like Villa Savoye.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42103</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42103</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of James Howard Kunstler&#039;s phrase:  &quot;yesterday&#039;s tomorrow.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of James Howard Kunstler's phrase:  "yesterday's tomorrow."</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-42101</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/20/disneys-highway-to-hell/#comment-42101</guid>
		<description>Notice it&#039;s &#039;he&#039; who is driving?  &#039;Father&#039; who is selecting the route?

I guess the future is Saudi Arabia...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notice it's 'he' who is driving?  'Father' who is selecting the route?</p>
<p>I guess the future is Saudi Arabia...</p>
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