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	<title>Comments on: Push for Congestion Pricing Spurs Parking Reform</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Konheim</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-41357</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Konheim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 04:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-41357</guid>
		<description>We have to first get people to understand the high value of the publicly owned curbside parking space relative to proximity of destinations and time of demand. Then we need to create what Shoup calls &quot;parking benefit districts&quot; to capture fees for those benefits for the affected neighborhoods. I&#039;ve written many times how the enforcement of such parking rules and the consequent fines are cycled back to the equivalent of our community boards (though with much more professional staff and responsibilities) to implement road and open space improvements. Think of the change in the balance of power that this would bring about.
I hope we can mobilize people around these ideas at Shoup&#039;s talk on Monday night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to first get people to understand the high value of the publicly owned curbside parking space relative to proximity of destinations and time of demand. Then we need to create what Shoup calls "parking benefit districts" to capture fees for those benefits for the affected neighborhoods. I've written many times how the enforcement of such parking rules and the consequent fines are cycled back to the equivalent of our community boards (though with much more professional staff and responsibilities) to implement road and open space improvements. Think of the change in the balance of power that this would bring about.<br />
I hope we can mobilize people around these ideas at Shoup's talk on Monday night.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-41329</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-41329</guid>
		<description>In response to the concerns about Residential Parking Permits, perhaps New York City (this may be blasphemy to some) doesn&#039;t have ALL the answers and should look to other Cities, like Toronto Ontario, where RPP works extremely well and even accommodates out-of-town visitors with Guest passes but ensures that residents always have a place to park near their home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to the concerns about Residential Parking Permits, perhaps New York City (this may be blasphemy to some) doesn't have ALL the answers and should look to other Cities, like Toronto Ontario, where RPP works extremely well and even accommodates out-of-town visitors with Guest passes but ensures that residents always have a place to park near their home.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-41328</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-41328</guid>
		<description>What Shoup says is that on-street parking should be priced to achieve 85 percent occupancy to reduce &#039;cruising for parking&#039; and the resultant local congestion it causes. New York City has far too many un-priced and under-priced On-Street Parking opportunities.

Our company Skymeter has responded to the Congestion Pricing RFEI can offer a much better solution to both the parking dilemna and the Congestion Pricing scheme. This would include the ability to accurately price.

Justin Peters</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Shoup says is that on-street parking should be priced to achieve 85 percent occupancy to reduce 'cruising for parking' and the resultant local congestion it causes. New York City has far too many un-priced and under-priced On-Street Parking opportunities.</p>
<p>Our company Skymeter has responded to the Congestion Pricing RFEI can offer a much better solution to both the parking dilemna and the Congestion Pricing scheme. This would include the ability to accurately price.</p>
<p>Justin Peters</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40574</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40574</guid>
		<description>RPPs are primarily a tool to reduce competition for parking from commuters, not a form of pricing to reduce residential demand for parking. I think you will quickly encounter the same politics of entitlement that is stalling congestion pricing if you price RPPs high enough to reduce local parking demand. Whether permits were priced at $5,$50 or $500, any amount that is considered unaffordable by some group of motorists who currently park for free is going to generate immense controversy. I keep bringing up &quot;pay to pray&quot; free sunday parking because it an example of how utterly irrational City Council is when it comes to parking policy. In that case, council overrode a mayoral veto. It&#039;s hard to imagine council sitting on the sideline and watching DOT impose high RPP fees. I continue to think the best RPP package does not attempt to price the RPP itself very high, but uses it as a bargaining chip to get a certain number of spots on every block metered for service vehicles, drop-offs etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RPPs are primarily a tool to reduce competition for parking from commuters, not a form of pricing to reduce residential demand for parking. I think you will quickly encounter the same politics of entitlement that is stalling congestion pricing if you price RPPs high enough to reduce local parking demand. Whether permits were priced at $5,$50 or $500, any amount that is considered unaffordable by some group of motorists who currently park for free is going to generate immense controversy. I keep bringing up "pay to pray" free sunday parking because it an example of how utterly irrational City Council is when it comes to parking policy. In that case, council overrode a mayoral veto. It's hard to imagine council sitting on the sideline and watching DOT impose high RPP fees. I continue to think the best RPP package does not attempt to price the RPP itself very high, but uses it as a bargaining chip to get a certain number of spots on every block metered for service vehicles, drop-offs etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Slopion</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40566</link>
		<dc:creator>Slopion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40566</guid>
		<description>JK: Well, this is the first time I&#039;ve been accused of being *too* idealistic and extreme on Streetsblog, so thanks for that. So set the price as high as you can; once it&#039;s in place you can go up from there. I don&#039;t think the fee is a dealbreaker politically. As long as the result is that, in exchange for paying up, you get to park easier (which is exactly what many of the other posters here fear will happen), there&#039;s a benefit gained for the price. 

Hilary: If you pay a set fee for a Resident Permit, then you do pay more the more you use your car (because you&#039;re most likely driving to a neighborhood where your permit does not work). 

Paying money in exchange for a better chance at parking is a carrot, and thus is at least remotely politically feasible. (And generates money that can be invested in mass transit, for instance, while possiblyconvincing the car owners least attached to their vehicles that they&#039;re not worth it.) Purposely eliminating parking spaces is a stick, and thus much tougher outside Streetsblogworld.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JK: Well, this is the first time I've been accused of being *too* idealistic and extreme on Streetsblog, so thanks for that. So set the price as high as you can; once it's in place you can go up from there. I don't think the fee is a dealbreaker politically. As long as the result is that, in exchange for paying up, you get to park easier (which is exactly what many of the other posters here fear will happen), there's a benefit gained for the price. </p>
<p>Hilary: If you pay a set fee for a Resident Permit, then you do pay more the more you use your car (because you're most likely driving to a neighborhood where your permit does not work). </p>
<p>Paying money in exchange for a better chance at parking is a carrot, and thus is at least remotely politically feasible. (And generates money that can be invested in mass transit, for instance, while possiblyconvincing the car owners least attached to their vehicles that they're not worth it.) Purposely eliminating parking spaces is a stick, and thus much tougher outside Streetsblogworld.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40563</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40563</guid>
		<description>Slopion -- It doesn&#039;t matter if all curbside parking is expensive. If you can expect to be able to find a place, you might as well use your car. In fact, the more you use it, the more you save on parking! Especially if the CP is a one-time charge for entering the zone, you can save money on parking by keeping the car in motion all day. 
I am just pointing out that pricing -- whether of parking or driving - can not be the only solution. There will have to be gradual elimination of space allocated for vehicles. We could set it to music like musical chairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slopion -- It doesn't matter if all curbside parking is expensive. If you can expect to be able to find a place, you might as well use your car. In fact, the more you use it, the more you save on parking! Especially if the CP is a one-time charge for entering the zone, you can save money on parking by keeping the car in motion all day.<br />
I am just pointing out that pricing -- whether of parking or driving - can not be the only solution. There will have to be gradual elimination of space allocated for vehicles. We could set it to music like musical chairs.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40559</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40559</guid>
		<description>&quot;Put the permits in place and set the price high.&quot;
Yeah OK, when you&#039;re done with that you create a $12 congestion fee for the Manhattan CBD (heck throw in downtown Bklyn), eliminate govt parking placards, make every avenue and blvd a car-free, cyclovia party on weekends etc etc. Try to differentiate between what&#039;s right and what&#039;s politically possible. How about starting with turning parking meters back on, on sundays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Put the permits in place and set the price high."<br />
Yeah OK, when you're done with that you create a $12 congestion fee for the Manhattan CBD (heck throw in downtown Bklyn), eliminate govt parking placards, make every avenue and blvd a car-free, cyclovia party on weekends etc etc. Try to differentiate between what's right and what's politically possible. How about starting with turning parking meters back on, on sundays?</p>
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		<title>By: Slopion</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40517</link>
		<dc:creator>Slopion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40517</guid>
		<description>The curbside is public, not private, property, it is true. But the public has every right, through its government, to lease out public property for a price, if it chooses. Put the permits in place and set the price high. Let people literally pay something toward the social costs of their vehicles. Better that than the alternative--which, dream whatever you may, is that they keep parking for free. 

BTW, Hilary, the disincentive for people to drive, now that they don&#039;t have to fear losing a space? Wherever they go, they&#039;ll have to pay extremely high metered rates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The curbside is public, not private, property, it is true. But the public has every right, through its government, to lease out public property for a price, if it chooses. Put the permits in place and set the price high. Let people literally pay something toward the social costs of their vehicles. Better that than the alternative--which, dream whatever you may, is that they keep parking for free. </p>
<p>BTW, Hilary, the disincentive for people to drive, now that they don't have to fear losing a space? Wherever they go, they'll have to pay extremely high metered rates.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-40490</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40490</guid>
		<description>Maybe NYC can learn from Amsterdam. I&#039;d like to see curb metering on residential streets. (There are scattered examples on some Manhattan side streets.)I do not know what RPPs would fetch at auction --- obviously far more if they guaranteed a curb spot. But I&#039;m very skeptical that an auction would be politically tolerable. Anyway, point is that if RPPs are only a &quot;hunting license&quot; they are not going to curb demand much. Demand for parking so far outweighs supply in the neighborhoods on the edge of the pricing zone (see double parking and cruising)that I doubt RPPs will have a noticeable impact. I also doubt that RPPs will trump police, fire and other law enforcement placards. This said, I&#039;d like to see RPPs tried in downtown Bklyn to see what happens. Maybe a couple versions could be experimented with in pilot programs in different boroughs. Given NYC densities of from 5,000 to 100,000 people/sq mile, we may find RPPs work in some NYC neighborhoods and not others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe NYC can learn from Amsterdam. I'd like to see curb metering on residential streets. (There are scattered examples on some Manhattan side streets.)I do not know what RPPs would fetch at auction --- obviously far more if they guaranteed a curb spot. But I'm very skeptical that an auction would be politically tolerable. Anyway, point is that if RPPs are only a "hunting license" they are not going to curb demand much. Demand for parking so far outweighs supply in the neighborhoods on the edge of the pricing zone (see double parking and cruising)that I doubt RPPs will have a noticeable impact. I also doubt that RPPs will trump police, fire and other law enforcement placards. This said, I'd like to see RPPs tried in downtown Bklyn to see what happens. Maybe a couple versions could be experimented with in pilot programs in different boroughs. Given NYC densities of from 5,000 to 100,000 people/sq mile, we may find RPPs work in some NYC neighborhoods and not others.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40482</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40482</guid>
		<description>JK, IIRC Amsterdam has munimeters in residential areas, with variable rates per time of day and length of stay.

But do you think RPPs would cost in the hundreds of dollars for anywhere except 10021 and 10023? There&#039;s no guarantee of finding a space near your destination, there&#039;s no security, and you would still have to move the car for ASP, so they should be at a steep discount to garage prices. Plus they ought to be limited one each to car registrations, so brokers couldn&#039;t hoard them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JK, IIRC Amsterdam has munimeters in residential areas, with variable rates per time of day and length of stay.</p>
<p>But do you think RPPs would cost in the hundreds of dollars for anywhere except 10021 and 10023? There's no guarantee of finding a space near your destination, there's no security, and you would still have to move the car for ASP, so they should be at a steep discount to garage prices. Plus they ought to be limited one each to car registrations, so brokers couldn't hoard them.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40475</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40475</guid>
		<description>You need a serious political reality check if you think residential parking permits will be auctioned to the highest bidder. The New York City Council banned curb metering on Sunday --- for meter rates that are already dirt cheap. There is no way that Council (and others) will allow RPP fees of hundreds of dollars. It&#039;s not going to happen. If you want to price curb space, metering is much simpler and direct. RPPs may have benefits, amomg them displacing govt placards and visiting commuters, forcing cars to be registered in NY and pay NY reg fees and insurance. But they are not a realistic route to pricing curb space, except as part of a political deal to expand metering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need a serious political reality check if you think residential parking permits will be auctioned to the highest bidder. The New York City Council banned curb metering on Sunday --- for meter rates that are already dirt cheap. There is no way that Council (and others) will allow RPP fees of hundreds of dollars. It's not going to happen. If you want to price curb space, metering is much simpler and direct. RPPs may have benefits, amomg them displacing govt placards and visiting commuters, forcing cars to be registered in NY and pay NY reg fees and insurance. But they are not a realistic route to pricing curb space, except as part of a political deal to expand metering.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40464</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40464</guid>
		<description>Davis &amp; cvarrick: I applaud your consistency in seeing parking as the root cause of congestion. First off, I believe that removing parked cars from the curbside in favor of anything except traffic lanes would have no effect on congestion, and even exchanging parked cars for traffic lanes would make little difference, because people would still be stopping for loading, unloading, and picking up passengers, just as they double-park now. 

The reason I support trying parking permits is because it offers an easy way to get the Gehl-recommended annual decrease in parking spots: simply auction off 2-3% fewer parking spots each year. The problem with removing spaces or converting them to other uses is political: people will complain to their elected representatives when the parking spaces on their block are taken away. Keeping the spaces but making it cost money and limiting the number of eligible parkers is a way to diffuse the effect across an entire neighborhood.

And cvarrick, I agree with you that drivers shouldn&#039;t have &quot;free&quot; rights to parking spaces,  and I certainly wouldn&#039;t mind having more bike lanes or wider sidewalks, but we live in a political world where those kinds of policies, no matter how attractive they seem to you or me, just can&#039;t be implemented by fiat. The topic of the original post is the new, more favorable environment for parking &lt;b&gt;reform&lt;/b&gt; that the CP proposal has engendered. The exciting part is blazing a trail from &#039;a&#039; to &#039;b,&#039; not elaborating on the amazing benefits of &#039;b&#039; and pounding the table on why we haven&#039;t gotten to &#039;b&#039; yet, when &#039;b&#039; is so glaringly obviously fantastic.

And as far as storing your record collection or old couch in the parking spot outside your apartment, have you considered buying a beat-up cargo van, packing it with your possessions, and simply parking it there? It would probably cost about as much as a storage locker and certainly it would be more convenient.

Chris H.: To use a muni-meter, you put in payment and it spits out a timed receipt. You have to put the receipt on your dashboard inside your car so the TEA can see it. So yes, it does supply a record that you were parked (although I can&#039;t remember right now if it prints the charges on the paper).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Davis &amp; cvarrick: I applaud your consistency in seeing parking as the root cause of congestion. First off, I believe that removing parked cars from the curbside in favor of anything except traffic lanes would have no effect on congestion, and even exchanging parked cars for traffic lanes would make little difference, because people would still be stopping for loading, unloading, and picking up passengers, just as they double-park now. </p>
<p>The reason I support trying parking permits is because it offers an easy way to get the Gehl-recommended annual decrease in parking spots: simply auction off 2-3% fewer parking spots each year. The problem with removing spaces or converting them to other uses is political: people will complain to their elected representatives when the parking spaces on their block are taken away. Keeping the spaces but making it cost money and limiting the number of eligible parkers is a way to diffuse the effect across an entire neighborhood.</p>
<p>And cvarrick, I agree with you that drivers shouldn't have "free" rights to parking spaces,  and I certainly wouldn't mind having more bike lanes or wider sidewalks, but we live in a political world where those kinds of policies, no matter how attractive they seem to you or me, just can't be implemented by fiat. The topic of the original post is the new, more favorable environment for parking <b>reform</b> that the CP proposal has engendered. The exciting part is blazing a trail from 'a' to 'b,' not elaborating on the amazing benefits of 'b' and pounding the table on why we haven't gotten to 'b' yet, when 'b' is so glaringly obviously fantastic.</p>
<p>And as far as storing your record collection or old couch in the parking spot outside your apartment, have you considered buying a beat-up cargo van, packing it with your possessions, and simply parking it there? It would probably cost about as much as a storage locker and certainly it would be more convenient.</p>
<p>Chris H.: To use a muni-meter, you put in payment and it spits out a timed receipt. You have to put the receipt on your dashboard inside your car so the TEA can see it. So yes, it does supply a record that you were parked (although I can't remember right now if it prints the charges on the paper).</p>
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		<title>By: Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40460</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40460</guid>
		<description>Nix, 

You could put a no parking sign on their dashboard and it wouldn&#039;t make these people stop parking illegally. It&#039;s about enforcement, not cluttering up the streetscape with more useless signs. And enforcement isn&#039;t a simple thing either. That&#039;s about govt employee pay and perks, union contracts, labor negotiations and a lot of inside baseball. It&#039;s not going to be easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nix, </p>
<p>You could put a no parking sign on their dashboard and it wouldn't make these people stop parking illegally. It's about enforcement, not cluttering up the streetscape with more useless signs. And enforcement isn't a simple thing either. That's about govt employee pay and perks, union contracts, labor negotiations and a lot of inside baseball. It's not going to be easy.</p>
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		<title>By: JF</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40459</link>
		<dc:creator>JF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40459</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t kid yourself (or us), Nix.  Plenty of government sector vehicles park on the sidewalk; just look at uncivilservants.org if you don&#039;t believe me.  If traffic agents can ignore cars parked on the sidewalk, they can ignore &quot;No Permit Parking&quot; signs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't kid yourself (or us), Nix.  Plenty of government sector vehicles park on the sidewalk; just look at uncivilservants.org if you don't believe me.  If traffic agents can ignore cars parked on the sidewalk, they can ignore "No Permit Parking" signs.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40458</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40458</guid>
		<description>Having never used a muni meter, I have to ask, do they give receipts?  If so how about this:  replace all free and normal metered spots with muni meters.  If there job has some &quot;valid&quot; reason as to why they should be provided parking, then they can submit for reimbursement as a &quot;business&quot; expense.  NYC DOT could even give a certain amount of credits out to agencies based on demonstrated need.  Sure it would not be as good as completely eliminating all free parking, but it would give an incentive not to occupy a spot when it is not needed by treating it as a limited resource.

Comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having never used a muni meter, I have to ask, do they give receipts?  If so how about this:  replace all free and normal metered spots with muni meters.  If there job has some "valid" reason as to why they should be provided parking, then they can submit for reimbursement as a "business" expense.  NYC DOT could even give a certain amount of credits out to agencies based on demonstrated need.  Sure it would not be as good as completely eliminating all free parking, but it would give an incentive not to occupy a spot when it is not needed by treating it as a limited resource.</p>
<p>Comments?</p>
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		<title>By: NixIllegalPermitAbuse_Then let's talk</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40457</link>
		<dc:creator>NixIllegalPermitAbuse_Then let's talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40457</guid>
		<description>Damn, Why doesn&#039;t Shoup recommend No Permit Parking signs?  150,000 government sector vehicles clog parking spaces everyday in NYC(illegally) for &quot;free&quot;.  Ignoring regulations on parking permits obviously is, and has been, an open invitation to congestion.  PlaNYC says government vehicles would not be exempt from congestion taxing, but how can you believe that when 150,000 government sector vehicles with parking permits have been exempt from illegal parking for years?  No Permit Parking signs are the almost no cost answer.  Traffic enforcement agents could not ignore real posted No Permit Parking signs.  It&#039;s happening in Chinatown right now and it works to some degree, but the signs are not permanent - We need permanent No Permit Parking signs now, in Chinatown and all over the rest of the City!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, Why doesn't Shoup recommend No Permit Parking signs?  150,000 government sector vehicles clog parking spaces everyday in NYC(illegally) for "free".  Ignoring regulations on parking permits obviously is, and has been, an open invitation to congestion.  PlaNYC says government vehicles would not be exempt from congestion taxing, but how can you believe that when 150,000 government sector vehicles with parking permits have been exempt from illegal parking for years?  No Permit Parking signs are the almost no cost answer.  Traffic enforcement agents could not ignore real posted No Permit Parking signs.  It's happening in Chinatown right now and it works to some degree, but the signs are not permanent - We need permanent No Permit Parking signs now, in Chinatown and all over the rest of the City!</p>
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		<title>By: Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40455</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40455</guid>
		<description>Jonathan wrote: &quot;it&#039;s not congestion if it&#039;s parked.&quot;

Baloney, Jonathan. 

Cars clogging a street are cars clogging a street. It doesn&#039;t matter if they are parked or moving. Either way, those cars are taking up public space that could otherwise be used for a bus rapid transit lane, a dedicated bike lane, wider sidewalks, truck deliveries, a public plaza or even a travel lane for moving cars and trucks. Also, parking is a magnet for traffic congestion. If there is space to park, people will drive. Parking is probably the worst kind of congestion because it takes so much and gives so little back to everyone else but the parker. 

Jan Gehl says that Copenhagen&#039;s single most important tool for de-congesting the city has been to eliminate 2 to 3% of the city&#039;s on-street parking each year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan wrote: "it's not congestion if it's parked."</p>
<p>Baloney, Jonathan. </p>
<p>Cars clogging a street are cars clogging a street. It doesn't matter if they are parked or moving. Either way, those cars are taking up public space that could otherwise be used for a bus rapid transit lane, a dedicated bike lane, wider sidewalks, truck deliveries, a public plaza or even a travel lane for moving cars and trucks. Also, parking is a magnet for traffic congestion. If there is space to park, people will drive. Parking is probably the worst kind of congestion because it takes so much and gives so little back to everyone else but the parker. </p>
<p>Jan Gehl says that Copenhagen's single most important tool for de-congesting the city has been to eliminate 2 to 3% of the city's on-street parking each year.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40453</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40453</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s unfortunate that we take as a given that every street is just naturally lined on both sides with parked/double parked cars.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I agree that it&#039;s unfortunate, but those cars do provide protection from speeders and reckless drivers.  If you remove parked cars from a street, you need to put in bollards, or preferably traffic calming measures, to maintain that level of safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It's unfortunate that we take as a given that every street is just naturally lined on both sides with parked/double parked cars.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree that it's unfortunate, but those cars do provide protection from speeders and reckless drivers.  If you remove parked cars from a street, you need to put in bollards, or preferably traffic calming measures, to maintain that level of safety.</p>
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		<title>By: cvarrick</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40450</link>
		<dc:creator>cvarrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40450</guid>
		<description>&quot;it&#039;s not congestion if it&#039;s parked. Parked cars have zero emissions and don&#039;t run down innocent pedestrians.&quot;

(Until there&#039;re not parked anymore)
Anyway you&#039;re confusing congestion with pollution.
It&#039;s unfortunate that we take  as a given that every street is just naturally lined on both sides with parked/double parked cars.

Parked vehicles are the very definition of congestion - they monopolize very limited *public* space. 
Why should drivers have free/exclusive rights to this space? How about a wider sidewalk/full width bike lane? Can i store my bike/couch/record collection in the *public* &quot;parking&quot; space outside my apartment? 

When these invisible subsidies are removed and car owners are forced to pay the true cost of the public resources they are consuming, there will be plenty of parking for those whose are wealthy enough to pay. (The people who are parking in private garages right now)

anon has it right:
&quot; No permits, no reservations, no &quot;rights&quot; to a space. For that, you have to use private, not public, property.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"it's not congestion if it's parked. Parked cars have zero emissions and don't run down innocent pedestrians."</p>
<p>(Until there're not parked anymore)<br />
Anyway you're confusing congestion with pollution.<br />
It's unfortunate that we take  as a given that every street is just naturally lined on both sides with parked/double parked cars.</p>
<p>Parked vehicles are the very definition of congestion - they monopolize very limited *public* space.<br />
Why should drivers have free/exclusive rights to this space? How about a wider sidewalk/full width bike lane? Can i store my bike/couch/record collection in the *public* "parking" space outside my apartment? </p>
<p>When these invisible subsidies are removed and car owners are forced to pay the true cost of the public resources they are consuming, there will be plenty of parking for those whose are wealthy enough to pay. (The people who are parking in private garages right now)</p>
<p>anon has it right:<br />
" No permits, no reservations, no "rights" to a space. For that, you have to use private, not public, property."</p>
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		<title>By: @alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-40420</link>
		<dc:creator>@alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/#comment-40420</guid>
		<description>(Munimeters with scheduled rates designed to favor residents seem better and simpler.)

If the Munimeters were to use Shoup-ian variable pricing, where prices are adjusted periodically (even by hour) to achieve 85% occupancy you would probably see lower rates for overnight parking than during the day, since there are more car-owner-drivers coming into the city from outside (where you need a car to get around) that car-owners residing in the city who need overnight parking.  I doubt that you would get &quot;free&quot; as the 85% occupancy price for overnight, except possibly on holiday weekends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Munimeters with scheduled rates designed to favor residents seem better and simpler.)</p>
<p>If the Munimeters were to use Shoup-ian variable pricing, where prices are adjusted periodically (even by hour) to achieve 85% occupancy you would probably see lower rates for overnight parking than during the day, since there are more car-owner-drivers coming into the city from outside (where you need a car to get around) that car-owners residing in the city who need overnight parking.  I doubt that you would get "free" as the 85% occupancy price for overnight, except possibly on holiday weekends.</p>
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