Comments on: The Weekly Carnage http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: sandjenk http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39282 sandjenk Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:02:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39282 I have come to rely heavily on Weekly Carnage for my work. My job is to complile this type of information for state and federal highway safety agencies that develop safety measures for our roadways. Please try to keep it if you can. You have my continued support and thanks! I have come to rely heavily on Weekly Carnage for my work. My job is to complile this type of information for state and federal highway safety agencies that develop safety measures for our roadways. Please try to keep it if you can. You have my continued support and thanks!

]]> By: cochon http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39270 cochon Sun, 28 Oct 2007 03:52:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39270 weekly carnage is why i go to streetsblog. i, er, love it. weekly carnage is why i go to streetsblog. i, er, love it.

]]> By: Charles Komanoff http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39269 Charles Komanoff Sun, 28 Oct 2007 03:49:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39269 As the main author of "Killed By Automobile" and an originator of the Streets Memorial Project, I have a lot invested in The Weekly Carnage. I also curated four consecutive installments in July when Aaron D. was honeymooning with his bride Susan, so I know what's involved in putting it out -- logistically and emotionally. I'm thrilled that so many other S'blog readers wrote to urge that Carnage continues. For me, Lola said it best, "It's transpo's own version of Durst's National Debt Clock." It's also useful to see, via the links given with each headline, just how the press covers each crash ... and how little follow-up even the fatalities get. And, last point, it throws a harsh light on the so-called safety agencies in municipal, state and national gov't who ought to be, but aren't, doing their own carnage reckoning. Keep it going! As the main author of "Killed By Automobile" and an originator of the Streets Memorial Project, I have a lot invested in The Weekly Carnage. I also curated four consecutive installments in July when Aaron D. was honeymooning with his bride Susan, so I know what's involved in putting it out -- logistically and emotionally. I'm thrilled that so many other S'blog readers wrote to urge that Carnage continues. For me, Lola said it best, "It's transpo's own version of Durst's National Debt Clock." It's also useful to see, via the links given with each headline, just how the press covers each crash ... and how little follow-up even the fatalities get. And, last point, it throws a harsh light on the so-called safety agencies in municipal, state and national gov't who ought to be, but aren't, doing their own carnage reckoning. Keep it going!

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39262 Angus Grieve-Smith Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:32:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39262 I'm glad to help, Vroomfondel! Rich, the thing is that I don't think this is a situation that cyclists can win. Obviously, some people have a huge blind spot and are oblivious to the cars running over pedestrians on the sidewalk even as they scream about "almost" being killed by cyclists. There are always going to be a certain number of jerky cyclists who are immune to any social pressure. Cycling advocates can spend lots of time and effort trying to get cyclists to behave on the street, and maybe they can influence some behavior, but I seriously doubt that that will change public perception to any great extent. The only thing that would change public perception is power. If motorists lose enough power to the point where the owner of any car whose wheels touch the sidewalk goes to jail, then people might feel comfortable acknowledging the reality of the danger from cars. If cyclists gain enough power that the Bette Dewings of the world come to identify and sympathize with them, then people might gain some perspective. In the absence of this, all we can do is work to transfer power from motorists to cyclists and pedestrians. In the long run, that's the only thing that will work, and it's a much better use of our time than browbeating other cyclists. I'm glad to help, Vroomfondel!

Rich, the thing is that I don't think this is a situation that cyclists can win. Obviously, some people have a huge blind spot and are oblivious to the cars running over pedestrians on the sidewalk even as they scream about "almost" being killed by cyclists. There are always going to be a certain number of jerky cyclists who are immune to any social pressure.

Cycling advocates can spend lots of time and effort trying to get cyclists to behave on the street, and maybe they can influence some behavior, but I seriously doubt that that will change public perception to any great extent.

The only thing that would change public perception is power. If motorists lose enough power to the point where the owner of any car whose wheels touch the sidewalk goes to jail, then people might feel comfortable acknowledging the reality of the danger from cars. If cyclists gain enough power that the Bette Dewings of the world come to identify and sympathize with them, then people might gain some perspective.

In the absence of this, all we can do is work to transfer power from motorists to cyclists and pedestrians. In the long run, that's the only thing that will work, and it's a much better use of our time than browbeating other cyclists.

]]> By: Vroomfondel http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39259 Vroomfondel Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:17:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39259 Angus, thanks for compiling this data; the link to your comment went straight into my bookmarks. Rich, I don't think Angus meant to distract from the problem of reckless cyclists. He was merely responding to my question of why we don't see any reports of bike-on-pedestrian crashes in the Weekly Carnage. I took yet another look at the original reasoning behind the Weekly Carnage, and it seems that it is intended to collect reports of _car_ accidents. I suggest that the scope of the Weekly Carnage be changed to include _all_ traffic accidents. This little change would mean little in practice because the vast majority of accidents are car accidents, as are virtually all the catastrophic ones. This change would, however, inoculate the Weekly Carnage against the suspicion that it only reports events that advance its agenda. In this context, the idea of replacing the current format with a human interest stories (Comment 22) is terrible. Isolated anecdotes don't mean anything (see, for example, all the scary-biker stories posted at WNYC). Let's stick to just the numbers, please; they tell the real story. Angus, thanks for compiling this data; the link to your comment went straight into my bookmarks.

Rich, I don't think Angus meant to distract from the problem of reckless cyclists. He was merely responding to my question of why we don't see any reports of bike-on-pedestrian crashes in the Weekly Carnage.

I took yet another look at the original reasoning behind the Weekly Carnage, and it seems that it is intended to collect reports of _car_ accidents.

I suggest that the scope of the Weekly Carnage be changed to include _all_ traffic accidents. This little change would mean little in practice because the vast majority of accidents are car accidents, as are virtually all the catastrophic ones. This change would, however, inoculate the Weekly Carnage against the suspicion that it only reports events that advance its agenda.

In this context, the idea of replacing the current format with a human interest stories (Comment 22) is terrible. Isolated anecdotes don't mean anything (see, for example, all the scary-biker stories posted at WNYC). Let's stick to just the numbers, please; they tell the real story.

]]> By: Rich Conroy http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39255 Rich Conroy Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:55:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39255 Angus, These incidents of cyclists causing injury or death may be relatively rare (or they are more common than we are aware), but then there's a huge public fallout for the rest of the cycling community, as the various newspaper editorials and powers that (NYPD, City Council, community boards) cry out for cyclists' blood, as happened with the 1997 Kaye(?) fatality. That's why I find the whole Alex Marshall discussion of exempting cyclists from traffic laws to be outrageously shortsighted. People can point out that motorists kill and injure far more pedestrians and that anti-cyclist reactions are hysterical all they want. Unfortunately, sometimes perceptions (or mis-perceptions) become a reality all unto themselves. And sure we can try to educate mis-informed pedestrians about where the real dangers lie. But that's a poor substitute for asking cyclists to clean up their act in traffic. If for no other reason than because those statistically rare deaths and injuries caused by cyclists have a huge repercussion for the rest of the cycling community. While pedestrian reaction to the Brian Lehrer show may have been over-wrought, we cyclists should listen carefully to this stuff. We are always demanding that others be more careful with cyclists lives, and the pedestrians are calling us out for our own rude, and yes, possibly dangerous behavior. It's amazing how a little politeness, civility, and traffic-law abiding behavior can change public perceptions of cyclists. And it's something that we cyclists have control over entirely--rather than something we have to demand from a city agency or motorists. So the question is whether cyclists are going to exercise that self-control and improve their own public image, or just be another participant in the rest of the out-of-control traffic culture. Rich Angus, These incidents of cyclists causing injury or death may be relatively rare (or they are more common than we are aware), but then there's a huge public fallout for the rest of the cycling community, as the various newspaper editorials and powers that (NYPD, City Council, community boards) cry out for cyclists' blood, as happened with the 1997 Kaye(?) fatality.
That's why I find the whole Alex Marshall discussion of exempting cyclists from traffic laws to be outrageously shortsighted. People can point out that motorists kill and injure far more pedestrians and that anti-cyclist reactions are hysterical all they want. Unfortunately, sometimes perceptions (or mis-perceptions) become a reality all unto themselves. And sure we can try to educate mis-informed pedestrians about where the real dangers lie. But that's a poor substitute for asking cyclists to clean up their act in traffic. If for no other reason than because those statistically rare deaths and injuries caused by cyclists have a huge repercussion for the rest of the cycling community.
While pedestrian reaction to the Brian Lehrer show may have been over-wrought, we cyclists should listen carefully to this stuff. We are always demanding that others be more careful with cyclists lives, and the pedestrians are calling us out for our own rude, and yes, possibly dangerous behavior. It's amazing how a little politeness, civility, and traffic-law abiding behavior can change public perceptions of cyclists. And it's something that we cyclists have control over entirely--rather than something we have to demand from a city agency or motorists. So the question is whether cyclists are going to exercise that self-control and improve their own public image, or just be another participant in the rest of the out-of-control traffic culture.
Rich

]]> By: tb http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39252 tb Sat, 27 Oct 2007 05:37:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39252 Keep it, but expand it to include the whole nation -- heck, the whole world. You've got plenty of time for that, surely. The local numbers are pretty shocking, yes, but it's on a national level that the numbers really stagger. Keep it, but expand it to include the whole nation -- heck, the whole world. You've got plenty of time for that, surely. The local numbers are pretty shocking, yes, but it's on a national level that the numbers really stagger.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39249 Angus Grieve-Smith Sat, 27 Oct 2007 04:37:07 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39249 Vroomfondel, I just went back and read the WNYC comments - the first time I looked at it there were only a few. Several people reported being hit by bikes - which is bad - but none of them reported being injured. As I said in another thread, I've been hit by a <i>rollerblader</i> who was going the wrong way up Ninth Avenue and didn't shout a warning or anything. In a city of eight million people I'm sure people get hit by bikes on a regular basis and it hurts, but they have no injuries. I'll bet that several people are injured a year. I'm sure there are a few fatalities every once in a while, but you would think at least one would be newsworthy. I just did a couple of Nexis searches going back to 1991. Searching for "cyclist kills" came up with 14 results, and in all the cases the "cyclist" was actually a motorcyclist. There were twenty results for "bicyclist kills": two were suicide bombings, one in Israel, the other in Bangladesh. In all the other cases, the bicyclists killed their victims with guns, sometimes after being cut off in traffic, sometimes as part of gang warfare (including Bushwick in 2006, Freeport in 2004 and Patchogue in 1991). A search for "killed by bicyclist" turned up five results, and the only relevant one was <a href="http://district5diary.blogspot.com/2007/03/cyclists-on-sidewalks.html" rel="nofollow">this San Francisco Chronicle article from March</a>, which leads with the story of a woman who was badly injured when she was hit by two cyclists. It alludes to (gotta love this) "the grim statistic of pedestrians killed by bicyclists in San Francisco," but doesn't actually give the statistic or mention any deaths. There was a NY Times column by Anna Quindlen from 1983 which quotes <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/01/09/in-defense-of-ghost-bikes/#comment-26325" rel="nofollow">Bette Dewing</a> as telling stories about people being killed by cyclists, but doesn't give details. Google yields a couple of hits about Arthur Kaye, a man who was killed by a cyclist ten years ago. According to <a href="http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/carssuck/post.html" rel="nofollow">this article by Mike Smith and Charlie Komanoff</a>, Andrea Peyser wrote a hysterical rant in the Post about it. <a href="http://www.transalt.org/press/releases/971119memorial.html" rel="nofollow">Cyclists held a memorial for Kaye</a>, and Transportation Alternatives gave the following statistics: <blockquote>Fact Sheet As the following statistics indicate, pedestrian injuries and deaths caused by bicyclists are relatively rare compared to deaths and injuries inflicted by motor vehicles. The following are averages based on NYC DOT and NYPD data from the period 1990-1995. Pedestrians Killed by Bicyclists: 1 annually Pedestrians Killed by Motor Vehicles: 250 annually Pedestrians Struck by Bicyclists: 500 annually Pedestrians Struck by Motor Vehicles: 13,000 annually </blockquote> Google yields a few crashes from around the world earlier this year: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2185062,00.html" rel="nofollow">Cornwall</a>, <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/05/01/1177788114967.html" rel="nofollow">Melbourne</a>, <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/irvine-walking-handfield-1823001-police-woman" rel="nofollow">Irvine</a>. Nothing in New York. In any case, you're probably more likely to die from being shot by a cyclist than being run over by one. Vroomfondel, I just went back and read the WNYC comments - the first time I looked at it there were only a few. Several people reported being hit by bikes - which is bad - but none of them reported being injured.

As I said in another thread, I've been hit by a rollerblader who was going the wrong way up Ninth Avenue and didn't shout a warning or anything. In a city of eight million people I'm sure people get hit by bikes on a regular basis and it hurts, but they have no injuries. I'll bet that several people are injured a year. I'm sure there are a few fatalities every once in a while, but you would think at least one would be newsworthy.

I just did a couple of Nexis searches going back to 1991. Searching for "cyclist kills" came up with 14 results, and in all the cases the "cyclist" was actually a motorcyclist.

There were twenty results for "bicyclist kills": two were suicide bombings, one in Israel, the other in Bangladesh. In all the other cases, the bicyclists killed their victims with guns, sometimes after being cut off in traffic, sometimes as part of gang warfare (including Bushwick in 2006, Freeport in 2004 and Patchogue in 1991).

A search for "killed by bicyclist" turned up five results, and the only relevant one was this San Francisco Chronicle article from March, which leads with the story of a woman who was badly injured when she was hit by two cyclists. It alludes to (gotta love this) "the grim statistic of pedestrians killed by bicyclists in San Francisco," but doesn't actually give the statistic or mention any deaths. There was a NY Times column by Anna Quindlen from 1983 which quotes Bette Dewing as telling stories about people being killed by cyclists, but doesn't give details.

Google yields a couple of hits about Arthur Kaye, a man who was killed by a cyclist ten years ago. According to this article by Mike Smith and Charlie Komanoff, Andrea Peyser wrote a hysterical rant in the Post about it. Cyclists held a memorial for Kaye, and Transportation Alternatives gave the following statistics:

Fact Sheet
As the following statistics indicate, pedestrian injuries and deaths caused by bicyclists are relatively rare compared to deaths and injuries inflicted by motor vehicles. The following are averages based on NYC DOT and NYPD data from the period 1990-1995.

Pedestrians Killed by Bicyclists: 1 annually
Pedestrians Killed by Motor Vehicles: 250 annually

Pedestrians Struck by Bicyclists: 500 annually
Pedestrians Struck by Motor Vehicles: 13,000 annually

Google yields a few crashes from around the world earlier this year: Cornwall, Melbourne, Irvine. Nothing in New York.

In any case, you're probably more likely to die from being shot by a cyclist than being run over by one.

]]> By: Lola http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39247 Lola Sat, 27 Oct 2007 04:02:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39247 Please keep Carnage alive! It's transpo's own version of Durst's National Debt Clock. Please keep Carnage alive! It's transpo's own version of Durst's National Debt Clock.

]]> By: Dan Icolari http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39246 Dan Icolari Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:28:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39246 Please keep Carnage. An earlier poster said it perfectly: As an antidote to apathy. Carnage has also made me more conscious and cautious as a walker. Thanks to Aaron Donovan for his efforts. Please keep Carnage. An earlier poster said it perfectly: As an antidote to apathy. Carnage has also made me more conscious and cautious as a walker. Thanks to Aaron Donovan for his efforts.

]]> By: jeremy http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39244 jeremy Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:41:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39244 I love it I love it I love it. Keep it! I love it I love it I love it. Keep it!

]]> By: Vroomfondel http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39243 Vroomfondel Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:40:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39243 Angus, That's what I figured; all those scary stories in the comments section at WNYC seemed anecdotal. Still, my point remains: Why aren't we seeing any reports of bike-on-bike or bike-on-pedestrian crashes in the Weekly Carnage? Is it because those are rare, or because they don't get reported, or is it because the Weekly Carnage only lists crashes that involve motor vehicles? As an advocate of biking, I'd like to be aware of any evidence that might weaken my case. If a biker should ever harm a pedestrian, then I hope I'll hear about it on this site. Angus,
That's what I figured; all those scary stories in the comments section at WNYC seemed anecdotal. Still, my point remains: Why aren't we seeing any reports of bike-on-bike or bike-on-pedestrian crashes in the Weekly Carnage? Is it because those are rare, or because they don't get reported, or is it because the Weekly Carnage only lists crashes that involve motor vehicles?

As an advocate of biking, I'd like to be aware of any evidence that might weaken my case. If a biker should ever harm a pedestrian, then I hope I'll hear about it on this site.

]]> By: Elly http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39236 Elly Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:22:32 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39236 I like the weekly carnage feature, if like is the right word. I tried to compile something like this in Portland Oregon and gave up after two weeks because it was so incredibly depressing. Hats off to Aaron Donovan for keeping it up for so long. If you find a new compiler, make sure you give them lots of love. And cookies. And therapy. I like the idea in comment 22 of featuring stories about car crashes each week. Might be just as effective, in a different light. I also wonder if local DOTs shouldn't already be compiling and heavily publicizing crash data on a regular basis. Seems like a great, and relatively inexpensive, public education tool. I like the weekly carnage feature, if like is the right word. I tried to compile something like this in Portland Oregon and gave up after two weeks because it was so incredibly depressing. Hats off to Aaron Donovan for keeping it up for so long. If you find a new compiler, make sure you give them lots of love. And cookies. And therapy.

I like the idea in comment 22 of featuring stories about car crashes each week. Might be just as effective, in a different light.

I also wonder if local DOTs shouldn't already be compiling and heavily publicizing crash data on a regular basis. Seems like a great, and relatively inexpensive, public education tool.

]]> By: and greatest http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39234 and greatest Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:25:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39234 Instead reserve the weekly feature for a first person narrative from a victim of such carnage. One powerful human story is more effective than the dry litany. I'm sure T.A. or right of way can provide you with the first six weeks of authors. Instead reserve the weekly feature for a first person narrative from a victim of such carnage. One powerful human story is more effective than the dry litany. I'm sure T.A. or right of way can provide you with the first six weeks of authors.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39228 Jonathan Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:21:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39228 Keep it, for all the reasons Angus and Eric mention, but especially for this one: I too own a gray Maxima, and I always wanted to know what my car would look like smushed into one of those ugly new bus shelters. Keep it, for all the reasons Angus and Eric mention, but especially for this one: I too own a gray Maxima, and I always wanted to know what my car would look like smushed into one of those ugly new bus shelters.

]]> By: Eric http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39227 Eric Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:18:12 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39227 Here's a vote for keeping The Weekly Carnage. I think you guys have made the point here before that if New Yorkers and Americans were being killed in these numbers <em>by anything other than cars</em>, there would be an uproar of historic proportions. Imagine if terrorists did this. Or MRSA. We'd have a riot on our hands. Here's a vote for keeping The Weekly Carnage. I think you guys have made the point here before that if New Yorkers and Americans were being killed in these numbers by anything other than cars, there would be an uproar of historic proportions. Imagine if terrorists did this. Or MRSA. We'd have a riot on our hands.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39222 Angus Grieve-Smith Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39222 Keep it. It's not an argument, because people are very good at rationalizing away "accidents." It's meant to get around the rationalizations, excuses and denials and remind us that <i>people are dying</i> for others' convenience. And yes, Vroomfondel, almost every week there are multiple stories (like this) of injuries, property damage and deaths due to cars "accidentally" going on the sidewalk. In other words, you're in much more danger from cars - even if you never leave the sidewalk - than from bicycles. Things like "The Weekly Carnage" help to drive this point home. Keep it. It's not an argument, because people are very good at rationalizing away "accidents." It's meant to get around the rationalizations, excuses and denials and remind us that people are dying for others' convenience.

And yes, Vroomfondel, almost every week there are multiple stories (like this) of injuries, property damage and deaths due to cars "accidentally" going on the sidewalk. In other words, you're in much more danger from cars - even if you never leave the sidewalk - than from bicycles. Things like "The Weekly Carnage" help to drive this point home.

]]> By: Chris Rall http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39219 Chris Rall Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:20:23 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39219 Keep it. Grim and tedious, but important. It inspired me to collect photos of collisions in Humboldt County California where I live. That ended up in turn being helpful to illustrate to local gov'ts here that an expensive safety improvement project was going to take money away from other approaches that could save more lives. I think it helps put that 42,000 deaths per year into a local perspective for Tri-Staters. Keep it. Grim and tedious, but important. It inspired me to collect photos of collisions in Humboldt County California where I live. That ended up in turn being helpful to illustrate to local gov'ts here that an expensive safety improvement project was going to take money away from other approaches that could save more lives.
I think it helps put that 42,000 deaths per year into a local perspective for Tri-Staters.

]]> By: Dave H. http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39214 Dave H. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:06:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39214 Government Official: "Actually, the language above makes me wish I never had to talk with any of you ever again as I pursue the agenda that we share." I'm curious what language makes you feel that way and why. Government Official: "Actually, the language above makes me wish I never had to talk with any of you ever again as I pursue the agenda that we share."

I'm curious what language makes you feel that way and why.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/comment-page-1/#comment-39211 Steve Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:53:25 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/26/the-weekly-carnage-63/#comment-39211 Keep it--regular S'bloggers become inured but I send links to it and it is an eye opener to the uninitiated. A thankless task as it must be tedious to compile and it garners the fewest comments, but definitely worthwhile. Keep it--regular S'bloggers become inured but I send links to it and it is an eye opener to the uninitiated. A thankless task as it must be tedious to compile and it garners the fewest comments, but definitely worthwhile.

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