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	<title>Comments on: RPA Refutes Anti-Pricing “Alternatives” Study</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Eric Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-39603</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-39603</guid>
		<description>NYC is lucky to have this lively public debate. It sure beats deathly silences other than the sweet sound of concrete hardening.  At one point someone will have to sit down (one very much hopes) with the players, opposing proposals, contradictions, etc. and come up with the game plan that’s going to do the job.  Great stuff. GO NYC,

Eric Britton, from a Paris that is trying hard to green itself and every once in a while doing quite a good job of it. Come check it out for yourself. (And by the way, CP is for now at least not in the cards here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NYC is lucky to have this lively public debate. It sure beats deathly silences other than the sweet sound of concrete hardening.  At one point someone will have to sit down (one very much hopes) with the players, opposing proposals, contradictions, etc. and come up with the game plan that’s going to do the job.  Great stuff. GO NYC,</p>
<p>Eric Britton, from a Paris that is trying hard to green itself and every once in a while doing quite a good job of it. Come check it out for yourself. (And by the way, CP is for now at least not in the cards here.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sproule Love</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-39490</link>
		<dc:creator>Sproule Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-39490</guid>
		<description>While I agree with Zupan&#039;s, TA&#039;s and others&#039; assessments of the recent Keep NYC CP Free alternative report, and I support a well-designed CP program along with East River tolls, we have to give credit to the group for putting *some* good ideas out there. Their report even mentions &quot;encouraging greater use of bicycle transportation &quot;(p.3). It doesn&#039;t go far enough, but you know you&#039;re getting somewhere when the opposition usurps some of your ideas and language. It&#039;s classic mid-90&#039;s Bill Clinton. The general conversation has really come a long way.

One glaring inconsistency I see in the report, however, is that while it cites no fewer than THREE Bruce Schaller studies (p.37) to further its case, this group continues to harp on the regressive nature of CP (p.6) with regard to hitting &quot;the middle class&quot; hardest. Yet, Schaller himself has put out several studies debunking this myth, showing that only 5% of CBD workers drive to work, and those that do have higher incomes than people who commute by public transit and they choose driving over other available options.

Corey Bearak, care to comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with Zupan&#8217;s, TA&#8217;s and others&#8217; assessments of the recent Keep NYC CP Free alternative report, and I support a well-designed CP program along with East River tolls, we have to give credit to the group for putting *some* good ideas out there. Their report even mentions &#8220;encouraging greater use of bicycle transportation &#8220;(p.3). It doesn&#8217;t go far enough, but you know you&#8217;re getting somewhere when the opposition usurps some of your ideas and language. It&#8217;s classic mid-90&#8242;s Bill Clinton. The general conversation has really come a long way.</p>
<p>One glaring inconsistency I see in the report, however, is that while it cites no fewer than THREE Bruce Schaller studies (p.37) to further its case, this group continues to harp on the regressive nature of CP (p.6) with regard to hitting &#8220;the middle class&#8221; hardest. Yet, Schaller himself has put out several studies debunking this myth, showing that only 5% of CBD workers drive to work, and those that do have higher incomes than people who commute by public transit and they choose driving over other available options.</p>
<p>Corey Bearak, care to comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Niccolo Machiavelli</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38769</link>
		<dc:creator>Niccolo Machiavelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38769</guid>
		<description>There is a big unsolved policy piece that deserves legitimate wonking regarding the Federal piece in this.  How will Fed funds earmarked for CP be figured into the New York split of future Fed Transportation dollars?  How will it be considered for Federal matching purposes with regard to the giant capital projects?  Is that money in addition to or in replace of our Federal split?

However, as someone above said &quot;its all about politics&quot;.  And, the politics of this are that the Mayor has held that Federal money out there as a stick to beat his political opponents with.  And, it is all out of the Robert Moses playbook and has nothing to do with good policy.  Silver called his bluff on the drop dead date of the whole thing and the conoscenti got a big laugh.

The whole entire, &quot;Oh my God you can&#039;t let them waste the Federal money.&quot; sky is falling aspect of it is just a political play.  And, if Bloomberg wants to play that card there is little we can do about it to discourage him.  Its his game.  But, that he never contacted anyone in the New York Congressional Delegation to go over either the policy or the politics before he started pushing it forward has not helped him build the political momentum or center of gravity to make it happen.

No accident that Mayoral Wannabe Anthony Weiner , who has become one of the antagonists in the political battle, used to sit on the Transportation Committee and knows a little about the distribution of Federal money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a big unsolved policy piece that deserves legitimate wonking regarding the Federal piece in this.  How will Fed funds earmarked for CP be figured into the New York split of future Fed Transportation dollars?  How will it be considered for Federal matching purposes with regard to the giant capital projects?  Is that money in addition to or in replace of our Federal split?</p>
<p>However, as someone above said &#8220;its all about politics&#8221;.  And, the politics of this are that the Mayor has held that Federal money out there as a stick to beat his political opponents with.  And, it is all out of the Robert Moses playbook and has nothing to do with good policy.  Silver called his bluff on the drop dead date of the whole thing and the conoscenti got a big laugh.</p>
<p>The whole entire, &#8220;Oh my God you can&#8217;t let them waste the Federal money.&#8221; sky is falling aspect of it is just a political play.  And, if Bloomberg wants to play that card there is little we can do about it to discourage him.  Its his game.  But, that he never contacted anyone in the New York Congressional Delegation to go over either the policy or the politics before he started pushing it forward has not helped him build the political momentum or center of gravity to make it happen.</p>
<p>No accident that Mayoral Wannabe Anthony Weiner , who has become one of the antagonists in the political battle, used to sit on the Transportation Committee and knows a little about the distribution of Federal money.</p>
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		<title>By: rhubarbpie</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38753</link>
		<dc:creator>rhubarbpie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38753</guid>
		<description>I have to agree that the federal funding is unlikely to convince opponents. I say that as a supporter of congestion pricing in part because of the steady money it could bring in to transit. 

While I myself would welcome $300-$400 million in my own bank account, it really isn&#039;t a huge amount of dough these days. And the dollars that congestion pricing would bring in when the program is running, if they are used for foolish projects like the 7 line extension, may not be worth it either. It&#039;s not like it&#039;s billions, anyway. 

So the question really is: is the mayor&#039;s proposal -- sweetened by the money that would go for new buses and other improvements -- enough to both stem traffic and help transit? And are enough people convinced of that? 

So far, the idea hasn&#039;t caught on with anyone but Manhattanites, so perhaps these additional ideas, maybe linked to fare relief and some sort of additional transit funding, are worth a real discussion as the congestion pricing debate goes on. (I also have my doubts about how willing the proponents of these other ideas would be to actually promote them, so that&#039;s worth throwing into the discussion.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree that the federal funding is unlikely to convince opponents. I say that as a supporter of congestion pricing in part because of the steady money it could bring in to transit. </p>
<p>While I myself would welcome $300-$400 million in my own bank account, it really isn&#8217;t a huge amount of dough these days. And the dollars that congestion pricing would bring in when the program is running, if they are used for foolish projects like the 7 line extension, may not be worth it either. It&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s billions, anyway. </p>
<p>So the question really is: is the mayor&#8217;s proposal &#8212; sweetened by the money that would go for new buses and other improvements &#8212; enough to both stem traffic and help transit? And are enough people convinced of that? </p>
<p>So far, the idea hasn&#8217;t caught on with anyone but Manhattanites, so perhaps these additional ideas, maybe linked to fare relief and some sort of additional transit funding, are worth a real discussion as the congestion pricing debate goes on. (I also have my doubts about how willing the proponents of these other ideas would be to actually promote them, so that&#8217;s worth throwing into the discussion.)</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38749</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38749</guid>
		<description>Federal funding has always been used as an argument for freeways - including freeways to nowhere.  I am happy that federal funding is now being used as an argument for congestion pricing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Federal funding has always been used as an argument for freeways &#8211; including freeways to nowhere.  I am happy that federal funding is now being used as an argument for congestion pricing.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38747</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38747</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s about the money in the end.  The MTA has been hocked.  They did the same to the road trust fund.

Read my latest Room 8 Post to see where our tax dollars are going; we&#039;ll be lucky if public education (as opposed to just pensions) exists for my grandchildren if and when I have them.

One way or another, transportation will have to pay for itself.  Plus pay for the past, plus interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s about the money in the end.  The MTA has been hocked.  They did the same to the road trust fund.</p>
<p>Read my latest Room 8 Post to see where our tax dollars are going; we&#8217;ll be lucky if public education (as opposed to just pensions) exists for my grandchildren if and when I have them.</p>
<p>One way or another, transportation will have to pay for itself.  Plus pay for the past, plus interest.</p>
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		<title>By: plist</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38740</link>
		<dc:creator>plist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38740</guid>
		<description>All politics is bribes/coercion of one sort or another. Vote for A and I&#039;ll vote for that, vote for this or I&#039;ll call you that, special interest group A just donated a lot of money to foundation B, gimme this or I won&#039;t vote for that... 
And what is wrong with accepting federal money? It comes from our taxes, we&#039;re due as much as anyone else. It&#039;s a valid point to raise, that&#039;s a significant amount of funding. And what sense does it make to turn down the money because metro areas are short changed in federal budgets? Cutting off your nose to spite your face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All politics is bribes/coercion of one sort or another. Vote for A and I&#8217;ll vote for that, vote for this or I&#8217;ll call you that, special interest group A just donated a lot of money to foundation B, gimme this or I won&#8217;t vote for that&#8230;<br />
And what is wrong with accepting federal money? It comes from our taxes, we&#8217;re due as much as anyone else. It&#8217;s a valid point to raise, that&#8217;s a significant amount of funding. And what sense does it make to turn down the money because metro areas are short changed in federal budgets? Cutting off your nose to spite your face.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38739</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38739</guid>
		<description>This is a political process. It is impossible to ignore the federal money, just as you can&#039;t ignore the revenue raised by pricing or the fact that pricing fees will be paid by real people who do not want to pay more to drive. If it helps, think of the federal grant as new buses, new signal controllers for BRT and new bus depots to house those buses. 

Pro-pricing supporters have made strong arguments for the environmental and economic benefits of pricing. Ideally, these would be enough to put pricing over the top. So far, they have not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a political process. It is impossible to ignore the federal money, just as you can&#8217;t ignore the revenue raised by pricing or the fact that pricing fees will be paid by real people who do not want to pay more to drive. If it helps, think of the federal grant as new buses, new signal controllers for BRT and new bus depots to house those buses. </p>
<p>Pro-pricing supporters have made strong arguments for the environmental and economic benefits of pricing. Ideally, these would be enough to put pricing over the top. So far, they have not.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason A</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/comment-page-1/#comment-38738</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/19/rpa-refutes-anti-pricing-%e2%80%9calternatives%e2%80%9d-study/#comment-38738</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve grown increasingly uncomfortable with any pro-CP argument that instantly trots out the Federal Grant monies that hang in the balance...  I really think this should be put to rest.  While it&#039;s great that Washington is going to offer support and assume some of the start-up costs, I can&#039;t envision how any of this will ever change the minds of CP opponents... 

It really plays out like a glorified bribe--not to mention obscures the larger budget injustice of just how many billions Washington cheats big metro areas like NYC.  

Let CP stand on its own merits.  Don&#039;t demean the city and make us out to be beggars thankful for any scraps thrown from the king&#039;s table...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve grown increasingly uncomfortable with any pro-CP argument that instantly trots out the Federal Grant monies that hang in the balance&#8230;  I really think this should be put to rest.  While it&#8217;s great that Washington is going to offer support and assume some of the start-up costs, I can&#8217;t envision how any of this will ever change the minds of CP opponents&#8230; </p>
<p>It really plays out like a glorified bribe&#8211;not to mention obscures the larger budget injustice of just how many billions Washington cheats big metro areas like NYC.  </p>
<p>Let CP stand on its own merits.  Don&#8217;t demean the city and make us out to be beggars thankful for any scraps thrown from the king&#8217;s table&#8230;</p>
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