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	<title>Comments on: Congestion Pricing, Hashed Out Over Pints</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:40:14 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Camera Kwestioner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38463</link>
		<dc:creator>Camera Kwestioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38463</guid>
		<description>re &quot;cameras (which depend on approval by suspicious state lawmakers).&quot;

Can we get the cameras to take pictures of whoever keeps putting up those $15 / $ 19 per hour moving signs?  

(see http://hoboken411.com/archives/2921 for more about these)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re "cameras (which depend on approval by suspicious state lawmakers)."</p>
<p>Can we get the cameras to take pictures of whoever keeps putting up those $15 / $ 19 per hour moving signs?  </p>
<p>(see <a href="http://hoboken411.com/archives/2921" rel="nofollow">http://hoboken411.com/archives/2921</a> for more about these)</p>
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		<title>By: SPer</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38415</link>
		<dc:creator>SPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38415</guid>
		<description>Sam, the problem with placard parkers isn&#039;t just that some fail to obey the rules.  It&#039;s that placard holders drive in far greater numbers that other people because they don&#039;t have to pay for parking.  This creates a huge incentive to drive, and it&#039;s the reason why government workers drive into Manhattan at such a high rate.  Eliminate placard parking = encourging the use of mass transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, the problem with placard parkers isn't just that some fail to obey the rules.  It's that placard holders drive in far greater numbers that other people because they don't have to pay for parking.  This creates a huge incentive to drive, and it's the reason why government workers drive into Manhattan at such a high rate.  Eliminate placard parking = encourging the use of mass transit.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Lowry</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38359</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Lowry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38359</guid>
		<description>&quot;[d]oes NYC have the political will to significantly reduce on-street parking by government workers by reducing the issuance of placards, eliminating placard zones and enforcing existing placard rules?&quot;

Can we please stop talking about &quot;government workers&quot; abusing placards?  The problem is cops, corrections officers, judges, and court workers.  The vast majority of vehicles with official plates and placards a) obey the rules, and b)receive (and pay) tickets when they park illegally.  It&#039;s really not fair to tar them with this brush.  Cops don&#039;t write cops (or judges, or court officers, or corrections officers), but they sure as hell do write everybody else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"[d]oes NYC have the political will to significantly reduce on-street parking by government workers by reducing the issuance of placards, eliminating placard zones and enforcing existing placard rules?"</p>
<p>Can we please stop talking about "government workers" abusing placards?  The problem is cops, corrections officers, judges, and court workers.  The vast majority of vehicles with official plates and placards a) obey the rules, and b)receive (and pay) tickets when they park illegally.  It's really not fair to tar them with this brush.  Cops don't write cops (or judges, or court officers, or corrections officers), but they sure as hell do write everybody else.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38343</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38343</guid>
		<description>Aaron put his finger on a key point: does NYC have the political will to significantly reduce on-street parking by government workers by reducing the issuance of placards, eliminating placard zones and enforcing existing placard rules? The short answer is &quot;No.&quot; 

Even a hard headed mayor with 70% approval ratings has shied away from this.

This is yet another reason why the automated enforcement offered by a congestion pricing zone is essential.

(Incidentally, it&#039;s not apparent why a $1billion commuter/non-resident tax would win the approval of Senate Republicans from LI and the Mid-Hudson. It seems even more of a non-starter than congestion pricing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron put his finger on a key point: does NYC have the political will to significantly reduce on-street parking by government workers by reducing the issuance of placards, eliminating placard zones and enforcing existing placard rules? The short answer is "No." </p>
<p>Even a hard headed mayor with 70% approval ratings has shied away from this.</p>
<p>This is yet another reason why the automated enforcement offered by a congestion pricing zone is essential.</p>
<p>(Incidentally, it's not apparent why a $1billion commuter/non-resident tax would win the approval of Senate Republicans from LI and the Mid-Hudson. It seems even more of a non-starter than congestion pricing.)</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Naparstek</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38335</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Naparstek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38335</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve actually been talking about that issue for quite some time:

http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/06/16/the-46-million-parking-perk/

The answer to your question is 19,200. 

That is how many fewer vehicle would enter Manhattan daily if government sector employees commuted by auto at the same rate as their private sector counterparts, according to Bruce Schaller&#039;s analysis. 

Cleaning up the government employee parking permit problem is important but not a show-stopper for congestion pricing. In fact, an automated, camera-based congestion charging system would be a great tool for solving the problem. As you&#039;ve probably noticed, the cops don&#039;t like giving themselves parking tickets. Cameras and software will be happy to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We've actually been talking about that issue for quite some time:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/06/16/the-46-million-parking-perk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/06/16/the-46-million-parking-perk/</a></p>
<p>The answer to your question is 19,200. </p>
<p>That is how many fewer vehicle would enter Manhattan daily if government sector employees commuted by auto at the same rate as their private sector counterparts, according to Bruce Schaller's analysis. </p>
<p>Cleaning up the government employee parking permit problem is important but not a show-stopper for congestion pricing. In fact, an automated, camera-based congestion charging system would be a great tool for solving the problem. As you've probably noticed, the cops don't like giving themselves parking tickets. Cameras and software will be happy to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: NixIllegalPermitAbuse_Then let's talk</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38334</link>
		<dc:creator>NixIllegalPermitAbuse_Then let's talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38334</guid>
		<description>How much congestion in Manhattan do you think is caused by 150,000 commuting parking permit holders in the government sector?  NYC has lost $300-million already in the last 6 years from parking meter revenue alone.  How many times have you circled your block because all the street parking is taken by government sector commuters parking illegally?  Doesn&#039;t anyone know about Department of Transportation No Permit Areas? Yes, they really do exist. It&#039;s called - All of lower Manhattan below Canal Street. Don&#039;t talk to me about a congestion scheme until you change your mentality about &quot;free&quot; parking for 150,000 government sector employees in the NYC area who can come into Manhattan and park illegally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much congestion in Manhattan do you think is caused by 150,000 commuting parking permit holders in the government sector?  NYC has lost $300-million already in the last 6 years from parking meter revenue alone.  How many times have you circled your block because all the street parking is taken by government sector commuters parking illegally?  Doesn't anyone know about Department of Transportation No Permit Areas? Yes, they really do exist. It's called - All of lower Manhattan below Canal Street. Don't talk to me about a congestion scheme until you change your mentality about "free" parking for 150,000 government sector employees in the NYC area who can come into Manhattan and park illegally.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38333</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38333</guid>
		<description>Mr. Bearak,

Thank you for your comments. I have made a correction regarding your affiliation. I was not aware of the change in the program prior to the event, and took it for granted that you were filling in for the Queens COC rep.

As far as &quot;commuter tax&quot; vs. &quot;non-resident tax,&quot; thank you for making the distinction. My notes, however, indicate that you said &quot;commuter tax.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Bearak,</p>
<p>Thank you for your comments. I have made a correction regarding your affiliation. I was not aware of the change in the program prior to the event, and took it for granted that you were filling in for the Queens COC rep.</p>
<p>As far as "commuter tax" vs. "non-resident tax," thank you for making the distinction. My notes, however, indicate that you said "commuter tax."</p>
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		<title>By: JF</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38324</link>
		<dc:creator>JF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38324</guid>
		<description>Thanks for stopping by, Corey.  While you&#039;re here, maybe you can comment on a problem I have with one of the anti-pricing arguments you use.

Brad quotes you as saying that &#039;neighborhoods with asthma-stricken populations are located &quot;nowhere near&quot; the congestion pricing zone.&#039;  We&#039;ve heard similar arguments from Jeff Dinowitz and Ruben Diaz, among others.

This argument fails to take into account that a neighborhood doesn&#039;t have to be &lt;b&gt;near&lt;/b&gt; a pricing zone, it just has to be &lt;b&gt;on the way&lt;/b&gt; to a pricing zone.  The &quot;asthma alleys&quot; of Western Queens and the South Bronx are most definitely on the way to Midtown Manhattan.  A big factor in the bad air here is all the cars passing through.

There are people driving from, say, Bellerose to Manhattan, right past my apartment in Woodside, and polluting my air.  If congestion pricing encourages some of those people to take the LIRR instead, why wouldn&#039;t you expect my air to be cleaner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for stopping by, Corey.  While you're here, maybe you can comment on a problem I have with one of the anti-pricing arguments you use.</p>
<p>Brad quotes you as saying that 'neighborhoods with asthma-stricken populations are located "nowhere near" the congestion pricing zone.'  We've heard similar arguments from Jeff Dinowitz and Ruben Diaz, among others.</p>
<p>This argument fails to take into account that a neighborhood doesn't have to be <b>near</b> a pricing zone, it just has to be <b>on the way</b> to a pricing zone.  The "asthma alleys" of Western Queens and the South Bronx are most definitely on the way to Midtown Manhattan.  A big factor in the bad air here is all the cars passing through.</p>
<p>There are people driving from, say, Bellerose to Manhattan, right past my apartment in Woodside, and polluting my air.  If congestion pricing encourages some of those people to take the LIRR instead, why wouldn't you expect my air to be cleaner?</p>
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		<title>By: Corey Bearak</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38320</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey Bearak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38320</guid>
		<description>First, a correction.  I represented Keep NYC Congestion Tax Free, not the Queens Chamber.  A subsequent ICE flyer which reflected my participation did not connect me to the Chamber.

Second, in my presentation I spoke of a non-resident tax -- using that phrase to distinguish it from the commuter tax that Governor Pataki and the legislature abolished almost a decade ago.  Unlike that measure, this proposal of the Queens Civic Congress would raise net, $1 billion for NYC and additional monies would be used for the benefit of the suburban counties.  Essentially, NYC would keep the money from the out of state workers and the suburban counties would keep what their residents generate.  This is a more efficient revenue measure since its involves virtually 100% of revenues raised going towards projects (or operations).  The congestion tax, at best, involves $2 of every $5 collected going to the cost of the program; that makes no sense.  
And in terms of the population estimates, it is important to share the context; that remark followed my point - during the opportunity to make a point of information in the context of the debate format that the planners who developed the 1961 City Zoning Resolution envisioned a New York City of 14 million people.  In fact the population declined to almost 1/2 that number.
Finally, the question posed did not speak to the merits of the congestion scheme, so its proponents have nothing to spin.
-Corey Bearak</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, a correction.  I represented Keep NYC Congestion Tax Free, not the Queens Chamber.  A subsequent ICE flyer which reflected my participation did not connect me to the Chamber.</p>
<p>Second, in my presentation I spoke of a non-resident tax -- using that phrase to distinguish it from the commuter tax that Governor Pataki and the legislature abolished almost a decade ago.  Unlike that measure, this proposal of the Queens Civic Congress would raise net, $1 billion for NYC and additional monies would be used for the benefit of the suburban counties.  Essentially, NYC would keep the money from the out of state workers and the suburban counties would keep what their residents generate.  This is a more efficient revenue measure since its involves virtually 100% of revenues raised going towards projects (or operations).  The congestion tax, at best, involves $2 of every $5 collected going to the cost of the program; that makes no sense.<br />
And in terms of the population estimates, it is important to share the context; that remark followed my point - during the opportunity to make a point of information in the context of the debate format that the planners who developed the 1961 City Zoning Resolution envisioned a New York City of 14 million people.  In fact the population declined to almost 1/2 that number.<br />
Finally, the question posed did not speak to the merits of the congestion scheme, so its proponents have nothing to spin.<br />
-Corey Bearak</p>
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		<title>By: Mayor Bluto</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/comment-page-1/#comment-38318</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayor Bluto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/11/congestion-pricing-hashed-out-over-pints/#comment-38318</guid>
		<description>Nice portrait of Steve Faust!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice portrait of Steve Faust!</p>
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