Comments on: The World’s Greenest, Most Livable Cities http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:12:44 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38143 Angus Grieve-Smith Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:11:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38143 <blockquote>Lower density means even if a person produces more pollution, he or she is less affected by it. Higher density means people produce less pollution, in part because they don't require private automobiles and can afford extensive sewage treatement plants, etc., but experience more pollution personally.</blockquote> Larry, I think you put your finger on the difference between two views of "Green." New Yorkers produce a lot less pollution, but experience more. For your average SUV driver in Boulder, that's "less green."

Lower density means even if a person produces more pollution, he or she is less affected by it. Higher density means people produce less pollution, in part because they don't require private automobiles and can afford extensive sewage treatement plants, etc., but experience more pollution personally.

Larry, I think you put your finger on the difference between two views of "Green." New Yorkers produce a lot less pollution, but experience more. For your average SUV driver in Boulder, that's "less green."

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38132 Larry Littlefield Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:10:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38132 My perception is that at any level of technology, there is a density tradeoff between global impacts and local impacts. Lower density means even if a person produces more pollution, he or she is less affected by it. Higher density means people produce less pollution, in part because they don't require private automobiles and can afford extensive sewage treatement plants, etc., but experience more pollution personally. New Yorkers, for example, contribute less to ozone pollution than those Upstate, but experience more of it. For greenhouse gas emissions of course, NYC is by far the best in the U.S. The two effects need to be measured and thought about separately. In part because the social and technological changes needed to reduce the global impact to those in places with less local impact are different than those required to reduce the local impact in places with less global impact. My perception is that at any level of technology, there is a density tradeoff between global impacts and local impacts.

Lower density means even if a person produces more pollution, he or she is less affected by it. Higher density means people produce less pollution, in part because they don't require private automobiles and can afford extensive sewage treatement plants, etc., but experience more pollution personally.

New Yorkers, for example, contribute less to ozone pollution than those Upstate, but experience more of it. For greenhouse gas emissions of course, NYC is by far the best in the U.S.

The two effects need to be measured and thought about separately. In part because the social and technological changes needed to reduce the global impact to those in places with less local impact are different than those required to reduce the local impact in places with less global impact.

]]> By: Hilary http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38131 Hilary Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:36:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38131 DC metro area has preserved the landscapes and park infrastructure of its parkways, which have enabled many miles of beautiful walking and cycling paths... DC metro area has preserved the landscapes and park infrastructure of its parkways, which have enabled many miles of beautiful walking and cycling paths...

]]> By: anonymous http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38120 anonymous Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:37:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38120 DC has the second most used subway system in the country, with somewhere around 900,000 rides per weekday last I checked. Chicago, despite being bigger and having a more extensive subway system, has far less ridership. Perhaps the many slow zones caused by deferred maintenance don't really do much to attract ridership. As for Seattle, it has no rapid transit at all, and most people still get around by car. Even the biggest concentration of pedestrians in the city, Pike Place Market, is actually open to automotive traffic, which certainly says something about Seattle's urban planning priorities. DC has the second most used subway system in the country, with somewhere around 900,000 rides per weekday last I checked. Chicago, despite being bigger and having a more extensive subway system, has far less ridership. Perhaps the many slow zones caused by deferred maintenance don't really do much to attract ridership. As for Seattle, it has no rapid transit at all, and most people still get around by car. Even the biggest concentration of pedestrians in the city, Pike Place Market, is actually open to automotive traffic, which certainly says something about Seattle's urban planning priorities.

]]> By: pc http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38107 pc Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:05:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38107 @ped: well, for one, DC had much less heavy industry to start with. Besides, the "green crusader" mayor is currently presiding over a complete dismantling of the region's transit network, which has long run on fumes and will soon grind to a total halt. @ped: well, for one, DC had much less heavy industry to start with. Besides, the "green crusader" mayor is currently presiding over a complete dismantling of the region's transit network, which has long run on fumes and will soon grind to a total halt.

]]> By: N http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38106 N Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:58:54 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38106 Where is Seattle? A city with many walkable/livable places. A mayor who fights for making Seattle more green and leads the Kyoto protocol? Hmm...this list is bunk! Where is Seattle? A city with many walkable/livable places. A mayor who fights for making Seattle more green and leads the Kyoto protocol? Hmm...this list is bunk!

]]> By: d http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38103 d Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:58:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38103 Where was Boston on that list? Where was Boston on that list?

]]> By: budrick http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38102 budrick Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:47:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38102 Washington has higher mass transit usage than Chicago, for one. Washington has higher mass transit usage than Chicago, for one.

]]> By: pedestrian http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-38101 pedestrian Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:37:09 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/10/08/the-worlds-greenest-most-livable-cities/#comment-38101 Hmm. How is D.C., of all places, greener than green crusader Daley's Chicago? I'd be interested to hear someone defend D.C. for once, actually, but there's no detail in the article. Hmm. How is D.C., of all places, greener than green crusader Daley's Chicago? I'd be interested to hear someone defend D.C. for once, actually, but there's no detail in the article.

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