Comments on: Fifth Avenue Will Get a New Buffered Bike Lane http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37698 Dan Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:04:46 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37698 In my vision for moving the lane, I think it would not be difficult to stripe or pave a small pedestrian refuge area/buffer at each left turn(really ever other street). There are many places where you cannot park at intersections so this really doesn't strike me as that much different. If you lose one space per two blocks you're losing ten spaces per lane mile. In my vision for moving the lane, I think it would not be difficult to stripe or pave a small pedestrian refuge area/buffer at each left turn(really ever other street). There are many places where you cannot park at intersections so this really doesn't strike me as that much different. If you lose one space per two blocks you're losing ten spaces per lane mile.

]]> By: @alex http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37695 @alex Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:27:25 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37695 The suggestion of moving the bike lane inboard of the parking lane is a good one - but there's one detail that you're overlooking. Unless there are dedicated left-turn lanes (replacing parking space) having parked cars between the bike lane and car traffic does not improve cyclist safety - it actually reduces it, due to decreased visibility of cyclists at the intersection (where far more accidents occur). While it's true that a buffered bike lane and a cycle track take up the same amount of space, you have to sacrifice quite a bit of parking every other block to get the cycle track. I don't think DOT is ready to do this yet. Let's see how the one on 9th Avenue works before we start duplicating it everywhere. It's quite possible that we'll learn from the 9th Avenue implementation, and therefore be able to improve on the design before implementing it elsewhere. In the meantime, a buffered bike lane will be a big improvement. The suggestion of moving the bike lane inboard of the parking lane is a good one - but there's one detail that you're overlooking. Unless there are dedicated left-turn lanes (replacing parking space) having parked cars between the bike lane and car traffic does not improve cyclist safety - it actually reduces it, due to decreased visibility of cyclists at the intersection (where far more accidents occur).

While it's true that a buffered bike lane and a cycle track take up the same amount of space, you have to sacrifice quite a bit of parking every other block to get the cycle track. I don't think DOT is ready to do this yet. Let's see how the one on 9th Avenue works before we start duplicating it everywhere. It's quite possible that we'll learn from the 9th Avenue implementation, and therefore be able to improve on the design before implementing it elsewhere. In the meantime, a buffered bike lane will be a big improvement.

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37688 gecko Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:12:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37688 They built cycle tracks overnight during the transit strike using traffic cones. Cars make a better barrier. Know it that we are in the age of survival with climate change the emergency of the millenium that won't be stopped with dithering. With cars out of the play pen human-powered transport will florish to trigger the transformation of this town into one of the great regenerative capitals of the world. They built cycle tracks overnight during the transit strike using traffic cones. Cars make a better barrier. Know it that we are in the age of survival with climate change the emergency of the millenium that won't be stopped with dithering.

With cars out of the play pen human-powered transport will florish to trigger the transformation of this town into one of the great regenerative capitals of the world.

]]> By: momos http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37676 momos Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:45:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37676 RE: #7 "Those who frequent MyBikeLane.com are eagerly awaiting cars parking in the new, buffered bikelane." DOT should just formalize the practice of cars parking in the buffered space. No need for a full-fledged bike track a la 9th Ave (though that would be great). Just swap the bike and parking lanes! As Dan (#2) points out, the swap would not change the distribution of road space. But it would make a bonafide bike lane. RE: #7 "Those who frequent MyBikeLane.com are eagerly awaiting cars parking in the new, buffered bikelane."

DOT should just formalize the practice of cars parking in the buffered space. No need for a full-fledged bike track a la 9th Ave (though that would be great). Just swap the bike and parking lanes! As Dan (#2) points out, the swap would not change the distribution of road space. But it would make a bonafide bike lane.

]]> By: Mike http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37672 Mike Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:44:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37672 Actually, 5th Avenue is 3 lanes at 23rd Street. It's just that 2 of the lanes are for traffic coming from Broadway and only 1 lane is for traffic coming from 5th Avenue. Actually, 5th Avenue is 3 lanes at 23rd Street. It's just that 2 of the lanes are for traffic coming from Broadway and only 1 lane is for traffic coming from 5th Avenue.

]]> By: steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37670 steve Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:42:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37670 A cycle track down 5th Ave. would be glorious, but I doubt it's happening anytime soon. I would be very happy to get a buffered bike, which doesn't cost much to install and can be removed to make way for a cycle track at any time. What bothers me is that there is still no continuous downtown path or lane for bicyclists north of 23rd street and east of Madison Square Park. As much as I love the 9th Ave cycle track concept, it is far less relevant to creating a connected bicycle network than addressing the gaping hole in that network in the northeastern part of Manhattan. A cycle track down 5th Ave. would be glorious, but I doubt it's happening anytime soon. I would be very happy to get a buffered bike, which doesn't cost much to install and can be removed to make way for a cycle track at any time. What bothers me is that there is still no continuous downtown path or lane for bicyclists north of 23rd street and east of Madison Square Park. As much as I love the 9th Ave cycle track concept, it is far less relevant to creating a connected bicycle network than addressing the gaping hole in that network in the northeastern part of Manhattan.

]]> By: Dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37669 Dan Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:34:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37669 This really is the kind of halfway measure that must be designed to drive streetsbloggers insane. It is this kind of watered down, offend no one/please no one, take no risks planning that's gotten us to this point. The goal of bike lanes isn't to make some symbolic gesture to bike riders, but to, you know, actually make better streets for people to use for biking. Since you're taking the space away from motorists anyway why not actually physically appropriate the lane for bikes? I always assumed that DOT preferred non-physically separated bike lanes because it held out the possibility of the lane being restored to car use at some point. This really is the kind of halfway measure that must be designed to drive streetsbloggers insane. It is this kind of watered down, offend no one/please no one, take no risks planning that's gotten us to this point. The goal of bike lanes isn't to make some symbolic gesture to bike riders, but to, you know, actually make better streets for people to use for biking.

Since you're taking the space away from motorists anyway why not actually physically appropriate the lane for bikes? I always assumed that DOT preferred non-physically separated bike lanes because it held out the possibility of the lane being restored to car use at some point.

]]> By: mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37666 mork Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:27:11 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37666 <blockquote> [N]othing but bare asphalt reaches all the way to Washington Square Park </blockquote> It's a woonerf!

[N]othing but bare asphalt reaches all the way to Washington Square Park

It's a woonerf!

]]> By: steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37655 steve Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:54:44 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37655 Folks at mybikelane.com are psyched because many double-parking motorists will stick to the buffer where one is available, leaving the bike lane free--a better solution for everyone. I don't think there are any posts on mybikelane of buffer-only parking. But expect the transgressions of the lane proper that do occur to be documented! Folks at mybikelane.com are psyched because many double-parking motorists will stick to the buffer where one is available, leaving the bike lane free--a better solution for everyone. I don't think there are any posts on mybikelane of buffer-only parking. But expect the transgressions of the lane proper that do occur to be documented!

]]> By: nobody http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37652 nobody Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:45:09 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37652 Those of who frequent MyBikeLane.com are eagerly awaiting cars parking in the new, buffered bikelane. ;) Those of who frequent MyBikeLane.com are eagerly awaiting cars parking in the new, buffered bikelane. ;)

]]> By: steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37651 steve Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:43:22 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37651 Dave good pt.! Since 5th is 1 lane at 23rd, then each lane over 1 south of 23rd is excess and cycle track-eligible! Dave good pt.! Since 5th is 1 lane at 23rd, then each lane over 1 south of 23rd is excess and cycle track-eligible!

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37649 gecko Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:21:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37649 The suspense is unbearable! When will the tipping point come when they stop hedging and start doing transportation right? The suspense is unbearable! When will the tipping point come when they stop hedging and start doing transportation right?

]]> By: Dave http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37648 Dave Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:15:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37648 It'll be interesting to see how they handle the intersection at 23rd St. DoT already limits traffic travling south on Fifth Ave to one lane (giving Broadway 3 lanes...why?) leading to tie-ups there. If they push the left-most through lane on Fifth south of 23rd further to right (west) it will just make the situation worse. A major reconfiguration of the Bway/Fifth/23rd St intersection is sorely needed especially with this change. Anything in the works? It'll be interesting to see how they handle the intersection at 23rd St. DoT already limits traffic travling south on Fifth Ave to one lane (giving Broadway 3 lanes...why?) leading to tie-ups there. If they push the left-most through lane on Fifth south of 23rd further to right (west) it will just make the situation worse.
A major reconfiguration of the Bway/Fifth/23rd St intersection is sorely needed especially with this change. Anything in the works?

]]> By: steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37646 steve Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:58:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37646 The failure to creates a 5th Ave. cycle track is further evidence that DoT may limit those to roadways with "excess capacity" (of which 5th Ave. is not one). The failure to creates a 5th Ave. cycle track is further evidence that DoT may limit those to roadways with "excess capacity" (of which 5th Ave. is not one).

]]> By: Dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37643 Dan Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:28:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37643 Seriously Momos! Why not. It's the same amount of road space and yet this solution pretty much refuses to make structural changes to the way we think about streets. I know we should all be glad for this, but can we take just a few more risks with this kind of intervention. Seriously Momos! Why not. It's the same amount of road space and yet this solution pretty much refuses to make structural changes to the way we think about streets. I know we should all be glad for this, but can we take just a few more risks with this kind of intervention.

]]> By: momos http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/comment-page-1/#comment-37638 momos Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:52:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/27/fifth-avenue-will-get-a-new-buffered-bike-lane/#comment-37638 I suppose this is good news. But why not take the opportunity to swap the parking lane and bike lane? Parked cars are a much better "buffer" than a painted stripe that SUVs freely drive over. I suppose this is good news. But why not take the opportunity to swap the parking lane and bike lane? Parked cars are a much better "buffer" than a painted stripe that SUVs freely drive over.

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