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	<title>Comments on: If Cyclists Think They&#8217;ve Got it Bad in NYC, Check Out L.A.</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37585</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37585</guid>
		<description>I commute my bike in the South Bay of Los Angeles to work everyday. While Torrance and Carson may seem like small potatoes compared to the congestive hell of West Los Angeles and Hollywood as a former Beverly Hills resident, The road sharing fighting of cyclists and drivers in Los Angeles is horrible and livid. In Southern California, Disrupting the flow of traffic is a &quot;crime&quot;? wtf?

When I rent a bike to meet my friends at Greenpoint or Williamsburg from hotel stays at Manhattan, I don&#039;t feel threatened that much at NYC except for the moron who parks his car on the designated bike lane. One thing is certainly clear, biking in NYC is easier and safer than biking in Los Angeles. It&#039;s only by my experience in riding a bike in these two cities.

I&#039;ve had near misses and drivers throw starbucks frappucino bottles at me in the &quot;bike-friendly region of Los Angeles known as Torrance, California&quot;. I&#039;ve had drivers zip past me by inches in their BMWs and Audis at 35+mph when i&#039;m biking waiting for a red light in the pavement whether it be Carson Street or Wilshire Blvd. 

I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if Los Angeles decides to ban cycling just so that the drivers and bus-riders would get by their day to day lives of work, eat and sleep. At Los Angeles, Cyclists have no rights in the road nor the sidewalk. No local governments are helping us and taxpayers here revolt if they have to pay for segregated bike lanes or insurance hikes for protecting cyclists as they do in Europe. I hate Los Angeles.

I also drive an SUV, but why drive my 4 Runner for a short ride when biking cuts the commute in los angeles by half through rush hour traffic? I&#039;d wish there are more bikers in Los Angeles who realize there&#039;s more to this craptropolis than riding a car. It&#039;s a car culture here, and being a native Californian from San Diego, Cyclists at Los Angeles are the new Mexicans - Blamed for everything, Useful for something, and Always Underappreciated on anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commute my bike in the South Bay of Los Angeles to work everyday. While Torrance and Carson may seem like small potatoes compared to the congestive hell of West Los Angeles and Hollywood as a former Beverly Hills resident, The road sharing fighting of cyclists and drivers in Los Angeles is horrible and livid. In Southern California, Disrupting the flow of traffic is a &#8220;crime&#8221;? wtf?</p>
<p>When I rent a bike to meet my friends at Greenpoint or Williamsburg from hotel stays at Manhattan, I don&#8217;t feel threatened that much at NYC except for the moron who parks his car on the designated bike lane. One thing is certainly clear, biking in NYC is easier and safer than biking in Los Angeles. It&#8217;s only by my experience in riding a bike in these two cities.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had near misses and drivers throw starbucks frappucino bottles at me in the &#8220;bike-friendly region of Los Angeles known as Torrance, California&#8221;. I&#8217;ve had drivers zip past me by inches in their BMWs and Audis at 35+mph when i&#8217;m biking waiting for a red light in the pavement whether it be Carson Street or Wilshire Blvd. </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if Los Angeles decides to ban cycling just so that the drivers and bus-riders would get by their day to day lives of work, eat and sleep. At Los Angeles, Cyclists have no rights in the road nor the sidewalk. No local governments are helping us and taxpayers here revolt if they have to pay for segregated bike lanes or insurance hikes for protecting cyclists as they do in Europe. I hate Los Angeles.</p>
<p>I also drive an SUV, but why drive my 4 Runner for a short ride when biking cuts the commute in los angeles by half through rush hour traffic? I&#8217;d wish there are more bikers in Los Angeles who realize there&#8217;s more to this craptropolis than riding a car. It&#8217;s a car culture here, and being a native Californian from San Diego, Cyclists at Los Angeles are the new Mexicans &#8211; Blamed for everything, Useful for something, and Always Underappreciated on anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37542</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37542</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t think you can really understand unless you&#039;re out here is that to most LA folks, if you ride your bike to commute you are treated as some sort of nutcase.  

When I lived in the NYC suburbs (East Rutherford), we might have joked about how L.A. was some sort of pedestrian/cyclist hell, but once you&#039;re out here you see its worse than you might imagine.

For example, I just moved out here a couple of weeks ago and I know two executives that wanted to ride to work who were both told by their bosses that they can&#039;t....its &quot;too dangerous.&quot;

Reading these stories makes me think the bosses might be right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t think you can really understand unless you&#8217;re out here is that to most LA folks, if you ride your bike to commute you are treated as some sort of nutcase.  </p>
<p>When I lived in the NYC suburbs (East Rutherford), we might have joked about how L.A. was some sort of pedestrian/cyclist hell, but once you&#8217;re out here you see its worse than you might imagine.</p>
<p>For example, I just moved out here a couple of weeks ago and I know two executives that wanted to ride to work who were both told by their bosses that they can&#8217;t&#8230;.its &#8220;too dangerous.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reading these stories makes me think the bosses might be right.</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37527</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37527</guid>
		<description>Brooklyn,

I don&#039;t think reckless driving of a bus, and the the implications thereof can be pushed aside as a &quot;fluffy charge&quot;. 
Also, its quite unreasonable to assert that the cyclist &quot;got what he deserved&quot;. Especially considering that you probably don&#039;t live in LA and have next to zero understanding of the cycling dynamics and relationships with government in that city. You and I understand the NYC perspective, but I can assure you that our perspective (as NYers) how we are percieved by those around us while we ride, is MUCH different than the scene/dynamics in LA.
Although from what Brayj says, it sounds like beauracrats hate their jobs in both cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooklyn,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think reckless driving of a bus, and the the implications thereof can be pushed aside as a &#8220;fluffy charge&#8221;.<br />
Also, its quite unreasonable to assert that the cyclist &#8220;got what he deserved&#8221;. Especially considering that you probably don&#8217;t live in LA and have next to zero understanding of the cycling dynamics and relationships with government in that city. You and I understand the NYC perspective, but I can assure you that our perspective (as NYers) how we are percieved by those around us while we ride, is MUCH different than the scene/dynamics in LA.<br />
Although from what Brayj says, it sounds like beauracrats hate their jobs in both cities.</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37521</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37521</guid>
		<description>Brooklyn,

Reporting these types of events to the Los Angeles MTA get you laughed at by their telephone operators.

The guy who did this is a bicycle advocate, and has done more in the past couple of years for cyclists in this county (Los Angeles County), than you&#039;ll probably do for any group of cyclists in your life.

When the proper channels are exhausted, and following your delicate rules of etiquitte gets you run into the curb, hit by car doors, and physically injured - etiquitte is not working!

In this case, and according to the laws of California, this dude has the right to detain someone who has tried to use fatal force against his person and is attempting to flee before police arrive.

What have you done to make sure that bus drivers and car drivers are made to obey the law and not endager your life?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooklyn,</p>
<p>Reporting these types of events to the Los Angeles MTA get you laughed at by their telephone operators.</p>
<p>The guy who did this is a bicycle advocate, and has done more in the past couple of years for cyclists in this county (Los Angeles County), than you&#8217;ll probably do for any group of cyclists in your life.</p>
<p>When the proper channels are exhausted, and following your delicate rules of etiquitte gets you run into the curb, hit by car doors, and physically injured &#8211; etiquitte is not working!</p>
<p>In this case, and according to the laws of California, this dude has the right to detain someone who has tried to use fatal force against his person and is attempting to flee before police arrive.</p>
<p>What have you done to make sure that bus drivers and car drivers are made to obey the law and not endager your life?</p>
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		<title>By: Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37509</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooklyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37509</guid>
		<description>Assault with a deadly weapon?  Sorry -- absent a conscious gesture of civil disobedience, advertised as such on the spot, this guy&#039;s a self-righteous baggy-short and visor-helmeted tool, not a rider, with no business on a bike.

I&#039;ve been run into the curb by asshole drivers of double-length M15s, so I know the experience is enraging and, to say the least, not fun.  But delaying an entire bus of passengers who were NOT driving -- not to mention tying up a 911 line -- to try and press a fluffy charge garners no sympathy.

Handcuffed and humiliated, he got what he deserved.  His behavior encourages no one to ride more, or anyone to start to ride.  More would have been accomplished by recording the bus number and writing a letter of complaint, letting everyone get on with their day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assault with a deadly weapon?  Sorry &#8212; absent a conscious gesture of civil disobedience, advertised as such on the spot, this guy&#8217;s a self-righteous baggy-short and visor-helmeted tool, not a rider, with no business on a bike.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been run into the curb by asshole drivers of double-length M15s, so I know the experience is enraging and, to say the least, not fun.  But delaying an entire bus of passengers who were NOT driving &#8212; not to mention tying up a 911 line &#8212; to try and press a fluffy charge garners no sympathy.</p>
<p>Handcuffed and humiliated, he got what he deserved.  His behavior encourages no one to ride more, or anyone to start to ride.  More would have been accomplished by recording the bus number and writing a letter of complaint, letting everyone get on with their day.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave H.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37498</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 05:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37498</guid>
		<description>Actually, it seems like that info originated in the comments section of the LAist. Well, whatever. Now it&#039;s here too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it seems like that info originated in the comments section of the LAist. Well, whatever. Now it&#8217;s here too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave H.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37497</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 04:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37497</guid>
		<description>This information was just forwarded to me, if anyone wants to write the bus operator. The Portland Bus operator has recently added a section on driving with bikes on the road to the operator&#039;s manual. Maybe other cities should too. 



Lynne Goldsmith

Metro Bike Program Manager

213.922.3068

goldsmithl@metro.net

 

and

 

Metro Customer Relations

(213) 922-6235 and (800) 464-2111

customerrelations@metro.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This information was just forwarded to me, if anyone wants to write the bus operator. The Portland Bus operator has recently added a section on driving with bikes on the road to the operator&#8217;s manual. Maybe other cities should too. </p>
<p>Lynne Goldsmith</p>
<p>Metro Bike Program Manager</p>
<p>213.922.3068</p>
<p><a href="mailto:goldsmithl@metro.net">goldsmithl@metro.net</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p>Metro Customer Relations</p>
<p>(213) 922-6235 and (800) 464-2111</p>
<p><a href="mailto:customerrelations@metro.net">customerrelations@metro.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: MrManhattan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/comment-page-1/#comment-37496</link>
		<dc:creator>MrManhattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/09/24/if-cyclists-think-theyve-got-it-bad-in-nyc-check-out-la/#comment-37496</guid>
		<description>Riding a bicycle in LA is one thing.

Riding a bicycle in LA without a gun?? 

Thats just stupid!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Riding a bicycle in LA is one thing.</p>
<p>Riding a bicycle in LA without a gun?? </p>
<p>Thats just stupid!</p>
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