I suppose if we turned Prospect Park into a giant parking lot that would solve Park Slope's parking shortage too.

I agree with you that the southeastern side of the park has a horrible traffic problem. I just think that we need to talk about real solutions to that problem. All of the real solutions involve helping Brooklynites get around more easily by a mode of transport other than personal automobile. All of the real solutions involve less driving and fewer cars on our streets during peak hours. That means your car and mine are part of the problem, not part of the solution. And allowing cars in the park isn't a real solution.

That traffic is there whether the park is closed or not. Study after study has shown this. So we need to do more than just pin our hopes on one additional hour of driving through the park as a means to alleviate traffic in area neighborhoods.

They "know" it reduces traffic congestion in their hearts, but that does not mean that they know it because of facts (largely because the evidence is contrary to this). Experience has shown that removing capacity does not significantly increase congestion in that area.

More importantly, removing capacity decreases the total vehicle miles travelled. This is due to the inverse of induced demand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Reduced_demand_.28the_inverse_effect.29)
Many of those cars will not simply travel through the same area. Some will find a different path, some will change the time of the day they drive, some will not take the trip and some will switch to mass transit.

The total vehicles travelling through the area will actually decrease resulting in better air quality for the surrounding neighborhoods.

Smith- Do you really believe that we can afford an increase in CO2 emissions and air pollution while we wait for the City to fix the mess we're in?

The only way I'd agree to re-opening the East Drive to cars for a period of time would be if, simultaneously, plans were put in place to reduce traffic congestion and car trips on the streets around the park.

If the city said something like, look, we're converting Flatbush Avenue to bus rapid transit, we're taking over the dollar vans and professionalizing them, we're adding lots of new bus service and reducing fares, we're building out extensive bike infrastructure for local trips, we're turning some key streets in the area into pedestrian and bus-only streets, we're doing market-rate on-street parking on the shopping streets and residential parking permits in the neighborhoods, we're not allowing any more big parking garages to be built in the vicinity, we're ratcheting up subway service and we're tolling the Manhattan Bridge to push some Flatbush Ave traffic into the Battery Tunnel -- and we just need to let cars use the park for a year while we get some of this stuff into place. I could be swayed something like that.

But if it's just: Traffic's bad on the east side of the park, let's shove some of that traffic into the park to try to make it better -- I don't see how that really solves the problem. Traffic congestion is just going to fill whatever road capacity you give it.

I would favor changes to streets to make traffic flow better. I would favor changes to public transportation to move buses and cabs faster. I would favor the addition of express buses for commuters to Manhattan. I would favor any of dozens of changes that could be made to decrease traffic in residential neighborhoods.

But I would not favor having cars go through a park. We need to start from a place of realizing that cars do not belong in parks. (The traffic is only going to get worse as NYC grows; does that mean we should widen the drive in Prospect Park?)

That cars were let in at all was a historical accident and now we know the consequences. It didn't work out. So we are in the process of correcting that mistake and are slowly turning back the clock on cars in the park, and getting it back to its original intent.

We need creative solutions to traffic congestion and should no fall back on the default of opening up the park.

I think the drives could be opened in one circumstance: late at night when it is dark. While there is daylight, those who can not afford gyms or soccer and Little League deserve a clean, quiet, and safe place to exercise and play.

But suppose,that I'm right and that clear and convincing evidence is presented that the closure had a negative impact. Would you agree that Drive should be reopened on a limited basis?

In reality, the park is very low down on the list of why the streets are clogged with cars.

I absolutely feel your pain but traffic congestion in the neighborhoods east of the park was nightmarish last fall and the fall before that too. Traffic all around Downtown Brooklyn got nightmarish as soon as school and work kicked back in last week.

The nightmarish traffic on the east side of the park has very little to do with the closure of the Park Drive and opening the Drive back up to cars will do little to nothing to end the nightmare.

It's time for us to start thinking and talking about ways that we can help make it easier and more convenient for Brooklynites to get around without a car. Sacrificing Prospect Park to the traffic gods isn't going to do it.

In a couple of months the number of bikers and joggers using East Drive will plummet. But traffic from the closure will continue... making the air dirtier, increasing CO2 emissions, increasing asthma rates, increasing ambulance response times and generally decreasing quality of life.

Yes, of course one can retreat farther into the park to avoid the unpleasantness of automobile traffic. Of course, this is why park usage declines during automobile hours. Most people who use Prospect Park are not looking for a deep woods adventure. Allowing cars on the Park Drives effectively SHRINKS the Park. You have to walk that much farther to escape the city. During car-free hours, peace and quiet envelope you within just a coupple of minutes of entering the park. During car hours, you are instead sandwiched between two streets with traffic and much go much farther to get away from street noise.

Bob, if you feel that closing the East Drive during the evening rush cuts you off from the rest of Brooklyn, how were you managing before? I mean, the East Drive was usually closed, even before this additional closure. Do you spend your weekends and weekday hours completely confined to PLG? Was Monday through Friday, 7-9 and 5-7 the only time you ever went anywhere? Weird...

Keeping cars off the main loop encourages people to use one of the park's prime assets: a wide open, heavily used exercise route, with lots of "eyes on the street" to keep everyone safe.

I'm pretty certain you're going to find that there are still quite a few streets leading in and out of Prospect Lefferts Garden during the two additional hours per day that the East Drive is now closed to cars.

BTW, I run every day in PP--there are lots of great internal trails away from traffic and MUCH nicer than the park drive--even w/o cars.

"Tons more cars will be on the sides of the park"

"Tons"???

I have viewed the traffic on PPW during the evening rush many, many times. What's so incredibly infuriating about traffic through the park is that it's completely unnecessary because PPW can easily carry the traffic load. I'm less familiar with Flatbush, but doubt that the situation is very much different.

The volume of cars driving through Prospect Park isn't actually that great, but of course the impact on the experience of being in the park, or of exercising on the Park Drives is tremendous.

"Cut off"???

Get on the Q train, you fool.

Otherwise -- cry me a river. Isolated? DOT closed the EAST DRIVE of PROSPECT PARK. They did NOT close Coney Island Avenue, Prospect Park West, Prospect Park Southwest, Ocean Avenue, Parkside Avenue, Flatbush Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, Eastern Parkway or any other street.

A combination of ANY of the above will get you around what you apparently think is the tree-choked abomination that cuts you off from the rest of civilization.