The charges should be high enough to make it much, MUCH more expensive to own a car in Manhattan than in the boroughs, and the funds should go to mass transit improvements for the boroughs. That would quiet the elitist argument.

Please read posts before responding to them!

I am a supporting of congestion pricing much as proposed by Bloomberg. I was RESPONDING to posts above that advocated for East River tolls as a simpler and maybe better plan than congestion pricing. Under bridge/tunnel tolls, no one living on the island of Manhattan would pay anything extra. Believe me, I understand that congestion pricing would involve a charge to those within the congestion zone. I believe this is one of the reasons why congestion pricing is better than putting tolls on what are currently free crossings to/from Bronx/Queens/Brooklyn.

I am NOT making an elitist argument. I AM saying that bridge tolls are VULNERABLE to the elitist argument.

Geez.

- The “rich guy” on the Upper East Side would pay $4 if he lives below 86th or $8 if he lives above it. How is that free?

- Mass transit in the city is set up primarily to bring people from the outer boroughs into Manhattan. If you live far from mass transit you probably pay less for your place; deal with the congestion charge as a rent/purchase differential penalty.

- We Manhattanites already subsidize mass transit as the fare to go one stop is the same as to go from the Bronx to Brooklyn. (Compare this with Wash DC, London, Paris which all charge more for further distances)

Furthermore stop making this out as an elitist argument; not everyone in Manhattan is rich and not everyone in Brooklyn is poor. A user fee to use the most congested streets in Manhattan is only fair.

Almost everything you wrote is based on misinformation or deep cynicism:

The BRT plan is to give buses their own dedicated lanes exactly so that they don’t get stuck in traffic.

Are you suggesting that b/c we’ve had ferry crashes we shouldn’t have more ferries? Why do you think ferries and express buses are mutually exclusive? Why shouldn’t NYC have both?

The express bus lanes for MTA bridges and tunnels are clearly laid out in PlaNYC and documents posted here on Streetsblog.

Even if Bberg cracks down on government parking permits full-scale, that’s not going to take 100K car trips off the street. Where are you getting that? Schaller estimated daily 19,000 car trips, at most, I believe. But, yes, Bberg should DO THAT too.

NYPD enforcement isn’t the answer for smoother traffic flow. Automated traffic camera enforcement is the answer. We need state permission for that too. PlaNYC is asking for it.

There is a plan for a massive increase in express bus service and the fed funding is going to help make that happen. What are you talking about?

No plan currently on the table does anything to allow trucks to travel for free.

NJ commuters? Yeah, they already pay $5 and will have less incentive not to move to transit. Get the system set up and if we need to jack up rates on those commuters at a later date, we can. That’s the point of congestion pricing.

What makes congestion pricing more or less as proposed by Bloomberg good and fair public policy is that it does not discriminate by residential location — you drive, you pay.

2- go to silive.com for aug 14- bloomberg and Sadik- Kahn cant run the ferries they have. another crash on a clear day? an act of god?

3- the ferry dough is nothing more than a ploy to keep Weiner quiet. it will lose a fortune. you can run express buses a lot cheaper.

4 -where are the express bus lanes and HOV lanes trouigh the MTA tunnels and bridges, like the Port Authority has been doing for years?

5 -Bloomberg said there were 100,000 government parking permits in 2001- there is your TOTAL REDUCTION IN TRAFFIC~ but it would piss off top cops, suburban cops, firemen, the reporters with press plates and publishers with special permits and every other pol in town.

6- the cops refuse to enforce the exisitng traffic laws. they would rather hand out 9 million tickets so they can get a raise- which they aint getting anyway.

7- there is no plan here to increase express bus service- USING EXISTING EQUIPMENT- FROM THE other four boroughs. an easy lift that the mayor and Spitzer wont do. -another big fat joke.

8- trucks get a huge discount if they buy new equipment to reduce emissions- so they might travel FREE.

9- Corzine made a billionaire deal with Bloomberg- its only $2 to travel from Jersey! they will get back the $6 toll on the jersey bridges and tunnels- how will that reduce traffic? but it will cost you $8 from 100th street to 85th street!

I agree and would go one step farther. The city would swap all its bridges into Manhattan, giving to the MTA, in exchange for the Verranzano, Throggs Neck, Whitestone, and Rockway Bridges. The tolls on the latter, no longer carrying the transit system, could then be reduced — a sop to drivers.

I’d also put a second, higher cost area (with cameras) in the area from, say, 28th Street to 86th Street as well. Say a $6 toll in (none out) and $4 to drive in the most congested area during peak times on weekdays. This could be used to fund the extra improvements for those beyond the current subway/commuter rail system.

Finally, something needs to offered to places like Downtown Brooklyn, in addition to the diversion of through traffic away from the area.

No matter what, NO EXEMPTION FOR PERMIT HOLDERS! You KNOW that’s what Sheldon Silver wants.

Toll the bridges and tunnels.

The few (20% of households, which probably translates to 5% to 7% of the population) of Manhattanites who own cars could easily be charged an annual surcharge on vehicle registration, or through parking permits (carrot and stick. Live here, pay taxes and a free parking space is included.)

If we just toll the bridges and tunnels we vastly simplify the whole process,

EZ pass for 95% and actual cash toll lanes for those who want to pay for their “privacy” with cash. eliminate the straw man “privacy” issues (privacy is for humans, not machines).

And we still get the Federal money.