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	<title>Comments on: Accidents Halved As Street is Stripped of &#8216;Safety&#8217; Features</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Havens-of-Manhattan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34534</link>
		<dc:creator>Havens-of-Manhattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34534</guid>
		<description>interesting. I always thought it was better to have more safety features put in. What can be said about cyclists? Would it be easier for them to maneuver with such stripped features?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting. I always thought it was better to have more safety features put in. What can be said about cyclists? Would it be easier for them to maneuver with such stripped features?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34521</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34521</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with Mitch.  Sharing the road Class 3 style works very well where there is low traffic volume and/or slower traffic.  

One of the things bicyclists struggle with now is positioning themselves in lanes designed for much wider vehicles.  I have found when all lane markings are removed, it becomes MUCH easier, as bicyclists can maneuver and position themselves as needed without feeling that they are taking up an entire lane.  The other vehicles then can negotiate around the bicyclist as needed.

It&#039;s often quite nice in the period after when they repave a road and when the stripe it.  In my experience, traffic is slower and the road feels much calmer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with Mitch.  Sharing the road Class 3 style works very well where there is low traffic volume and/or slower traffic.  </p>
<p>One of the things bicyclists struggle with now is positioning themselves in lanes designed for much wider vehicles.  I have found when all lane markings are removed, it becomes MUCH easier, as bicyclists can maneuver and position themselves as needed without feeling that they are taking up an entire lane.  The other vehicles then can negotiate around the bicyclist as needed.</p>
<p>It's often quite nice in the period after when they repave a road and when the stripe it.  In my experience, traffic is slower and the road feels much calmer.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34520</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34520</guid>
		<description>The one part of the DOT&#039;s Queens Boulevard safety plan for my neighborhood that I didn&#039;t like was the proposed &quot;Z crosswalk,&quot; which I think is one of the median fence styles referred to above.  They hadn&#039;t put it up last time I checked.

Speaking of &quot;safety&quot; features that don&#039;t work, has the city finally gotten rid of all the idiotic &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/reclaiming/pedestrianbarricades.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Giuliani/Hoehl pedestrian barricades&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one part of the DOT's Queens Boulevard safety plan for my neighborhood that I didn't like was the proposed "Z crosswalk," which I think is one of the median fence styles referred to above.  They hadn't put it up last time I checked.</p>
<p>Speaking of "safety" features that don't work, has the city finally gotten rid of all the idiotic <a href="http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/reclaiming/pedestrianbarricades.html" rel="nofollow">Giuliani/Hoehl pedestrian barricades</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34519</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34519</guid>
		<description>Brit pop,

Yes, but I didn’t write that there wasn’t any changes from before.  I was referring to idea that there were still plenty of safety features, if the picture is an after one and that the headline and the reference to “naked road” is misleading at best, unless one would consider most of the streets in the New York City area to be “naked” as it appears to me that the picture doesn’t show anything very new compared to what I’m use to in the New York City area.  Maybe the lines and traffic lights are somewhat smaller.  Also, in regard to Monderman’s “favorite intersection” that is a traffic circle.  Traffic circles also are not new.  As to Monderman’s square, that maybe a new idea, but the article doesn’t say much about it.

I’m not saying that these ideas are not good ones.  I just don’t see much that is new in regard to the redesign of Kensington High Street and with the traffic circle, when compared to what I’m familiar with.  I like the idea of traffic circles.  Also, again if the picture is after the change then there still are lots of safety features on Kensington High Street.

Tom,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brit pop,</p>
<p>Yes, but I didn’t write that there wasn’t any changes from before.  I was referring to idea that there were still plenty of safety features, if the picture is an after one and that the headline and the reference to “naked road” is misleading at best, unless one would consider most of the streets in the New York City area to be “naked” as it appears to me that the picture doesn’t show anything very new compared to what I’m use to in the New York City area.  Maybe the lines and traffic lights are somewhat smaller.  Also, in regard to Monderman’s “favorite intersection” that is a traffic circle.  Traffic circles also are not new.  As to Monderman’s square, that maybe a new idea, but the article doesn’t say much about it.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that these ideas are not good ones.  I just don’t see much that is new in regard to the redesign of Kensington High Street and with the traffic circle, when compared to what I’m familiar with.  I like the idea of traffic circles.  Also, again if the picture is after the change then there still are lots of safety features on Kensington High Street.</p>
<p>Tom,</p>
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		<title>By: Brit Pop</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34517</link>
		<dc:creator>Brit Pop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34517</guid>
		<description>Tom,

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that London streets are really heavily, aggressively designed and engineered for &quot;safety.&quot; For example, Ken High Street used to have all of this fencing running down the middle of it -- these kinds of cattle chutes that peds would have to walk through to cross the street. So, while this new street might not be as &quot;naked&quot; as a Hans Monderman project in the Netherlands, it&#039;s pretty naked compared to how it used to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>One thing that you have to keep in mind is that London streets are really heavily, aggressively designed and engineered for "safety." For example, Ken High Street used to have all of this fencing running down the middle of it -- these kinds of cattle chutes that peds would have to walk through to cross the street. So, while this new street might not be as "naked" as a Hans Monderman project in the Netherlands, it's pretty naked compared to how it used to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34510</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34510</guid>
		<description>Reading about this entry I wondered if the picture was before or after, because if it is after then the street was not Striped of “Safety” features, as there are what appears to be a traffic light, a walk and don’t walk light, a median, painted dashes indicating the cross walk and a stop line for the cars on the right side of the picture.  Then reading what appears to be the source of the report (I clicked on reports), it seems that engineers did not remove traffic lights, but “combined traffic lights with lamp posts to remove the clutter.”  It maybe the removal of clutter, so that what was expected was clearer to people that made the street safer.  So, I would say that saying that the street was striped of safety features and that calling this the “naked road” concept is misleading at best.  It seems, from this picture, that there is just as many safety features as most roads, although maybe not as large. 

Also, in the comments I clicked on the Wired article indicated by Rollie.  I had read this before and it seems to me that the most important change for Monderman’s “favorite intersection” was the building of the traffic circle or round about.  It has long been known that merging traffic; such has what happens at traffic circles or limited access highways are safer than the right angle intersection and therefore do not need traffic lights or other such things.  It seems that the traffic circle made these other things unneeded by eliminating crossing traffic.  

Tom,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading about this entry I wondered if the picture was before or after, because if it is after then the street was not Striped of “Safety” features, as there are what appears to be a traffic light, a walk and don’t walk light, a median, painted dashes indicating the cross walk and a stop line for the cars on the right side of the picture.  Then reading what appears to be the source of the report (I clicked on reports), it seems that engineers did not remove traffic lights, but “combined traffic lights with lamp posts to remove the clutter.”  It maybe the removal of clutter, so that what was expected was clearer to people that made the street safer.  So, I would say that saying that the street was striped of safety features and that calling this the “naked road” concept is misleading at best.  It seems, from this picture, that there is just as many safety features as most roads, although maybe not as large. </p>
<p>Also, in the comments I clicked on the Wired article indicated by Rollie.  I had read this before and it seems to me that the most important change for Monderman’s “favorite intersection” was the building of the traffic circle or round about.  It has long been known that merging traffic; such has what happens at traffic circles or limited access highways are safer than the right angle intersection and therefore do not need traffic lights or other such things.  It seems that the traffic circle made these other things unneeded by eliminating crossing traffic.  </p>
<p>Tom,</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34509</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34509</guid>
		<description>What does this imply for bikes?  

I would suggest that in some places (though definitely not everywhere) those despised Class III bike routes are the safest way to provide for bike traffic.  And they are safe for the same reason that Kensington High Street is safe -- they remove the illusion of safety, and force bikes, cars and pedestrians to pay attention to each other.

Sometimes separated facilities are the best way to provide for bikes, but not always.  I think it&#039;s important not to be ideological about this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does this imply for bikes?  </p>
<p>I would suggest that in some places (though definitely not everywhere) those despised Class III bike routes are the safest way to provide for bike traffic.  And they are safe for the same reason that Kensington High Street is safe -- they remove the illusion of safety, and force bikes, cars and pedestrians to pay attention to each other.</p>
<p>Sometimes separated facilities are the best way to provide for bikes, but not always.  I think it's important not to be ideological about this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: mfs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34503</link>
		<dc:creator>mfs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34503</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I bet they could lower the accident rate further if they started driving on the right side of the road too.  (sorry, couldn&#039;t resist)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet they could lower the accident rate further if they started driving on the right side of the road too.  (sorry, couldn't resist)</p>
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		<title>By: Joby Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34498</link>
		<dc:creator>Joby Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34498</guid>
		<description>it sounds really good. however, I&#039;d like to know if these results continue with time. Do drivers &amp; peds eventually return to the familiar patterns or do they continue to behave safer. I&#039;d suspect that the improvements are due to the &quot;negotiation&quot; effect described, but I&#039;d feel safer making conclusions after seeing the data over a longer period, as well as breaking out the data to see what percentage of the accidents involved local residents (as either drivers or peds).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it sounds really good. however, I'd like to know if these results continue with time. Do drivers &amp; peds eventually return to the familiar patterns or do they continue to behave safer. I'd suspect that the improvements are due to the "negotiation" effect described, but I'd feel safer making conclusions after seeing the data over a longer period, as well as breaking out the data to see what percentage of the accidents involved local residents (as either drivers or peds).</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34492</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34492</guid>
		<description>I heard this guy on WNYC&#039;s &quot;Fair Game&quot; not too long ago--apparently he&#039;s been on more than once--put his name in the &quot;search archive&quot; field:

http://pri.morefairgame.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard this guy on WNYC's "Fair Game" not too long ago--apparently he's been on more than once--put his name in the "search archive" field:</p>
<p><a href="http://pri.morefairgame.org/" rel="nofollow">http://pri.morefairgame.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rollie</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34481</link>
		<dc:creator>Rollie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34481</guid>
		<description>Sara, I think this slightly dated Wired article may give an indication: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sara, I think this slightly dated Wired article may give an indication: <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34480</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34480</guid>
		<description>I would guess that it&#039;s because all users of the road have to negotiate with each other and acknowledge each others&#039; existing, as opposed to blindly following automated signals instructing them to do something that may or may not actually be the safest thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would guess that it's because all users of the road have to negotiate with each other and acknowledge each others' existing, as opposed to blindly following automated signals instructing them to do something that may or may not actually be the safest thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: sara</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/comment-page-1/#comment-34477</link>
		<dc:creator>sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/25/accidents-halved-as-street-is-stripped-of-safety-features/#comment-34477</guid>
		<description>any ideas why safer streets might have resulted from this plan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>any ideas why safer streets might have resulted from this plan?</p>
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