Comments on: Safety First? True Once, but U.S. Now Lags in Road Deaths http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: speed kills http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34441 speed kills Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:39:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34441 NY allows -- encourages! - speed as part of its decongestion policy. The whole emphasis has been on keeping traffic moving as fast as possible so that the most vehicles can pass through. I hope the new congestion policy will target reducing the total vehicle miles traveled rather than achieving some average speed. I know that stalled traffic is worse for pollution, but it's not the whole picture.. NY allows -- encourages! - speed as part of its decongestion policy. The whole emphasis has been on keeping traffic moving as fast as possible so that the most vehicles can pass through. I hope the new congestion policy will target reducing the total vehicle miles traveled rather than achieving some average speed. I know that stalled traffic is worse for pollution, but it's not the whole picture..

]]> By: Ed Crotch http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34427 Ed Crotch Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:42:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34427 I hope no one is surprised by this. TThe US economy is fueled by the car. If a person can not drive his car as fast as they want for as cheap as they can then this ain't America. Most driving laws are there for one reason only - to determine who is liable after there has been an accident. The police don't do much about it, have you ever been on the GSP? The average speed in 80 mph! The police know that people need to drive fast. The police know that if they actually were to do something they would be encroaching upon the American dream, and really, who wants that? I hope no one is surprised by this. TThe US economy is fueled by the car. If a person can not drive his car as fast as they want for as cheap as they can then this ain't America. Most driving laws are there for one reason only - to determine who is liable after there has been an accident. The police don't do much about it, have you ever been on the GSP? The average speed in 80 mph! The police know that people need to drive fast. The police know that if they actually were to do something they would be encroaching upon the American dream, and really, who wants that?

]]> By: Havens-of-Manhattan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34415 Havens-of-Manhattan Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:03:08 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34415 Niccolo- What a funny entry you have written there. So, what would this mean for the future of US? Any ideas? Niccolo-
What a funny entry you have written there.

So, what would this mean for the future of US?

Any ideas?

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34395 Niccolo Machiavelli Tue, 24 Jul 2007 05:13:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34395 Right on the money Charley, except the dubious proposition that we are equally prosperous with the Germans. I think wages in the US are about 70% of Germany. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it is just tradesman, I'm suppose the stockbrokers and insurance agents do much better here. Also, all Germans from age 20 to 65 take 5 weeks of vacation a year and get a 13th month salary bonus at the end of the year. Add in that they can ride a bike, take a train or drive wherever they want to go. Forget the Health Insurance difference. Of course, gas is expensive and there is not much air conditioning. But the beer is cheap. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Right on the money Charley, except the dubious proposition that we are equally prosperous with the Germans. I think wages in the US are about 70% of Germany. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it is just tradesman, I'm suppose the stockbrokers and insurance agents do much better here.

Also, all Germans from age 20 to 65 take 5 weeks of vacation a year and get a 13th month salary bonus at the end of the year. Add in that they can ride a bike, take a train or drive wherever they want to go. Forget the Health Insurance difference.

Of course, gas is expensive and there is not much air conditioning.

But the beer is cheap.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

]]> By: Charles Komanoff http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34391 Charles Komanoff Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:30:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34391 I published a letter along these lines in the NYT several years ago, thus: December 4, 2003 Reducing Traffic Deaths To the Editor: The criterion by which the United States is ranked No. 9 in traffic safety, fatalities per million miles driven (news article, Nov. 27), bears little connection to real life. Americans drive more than any other people — twice as much per capita as the equally prosperous Germans, for example — because our sprawl-strewn landscapes require it. That our rate of deaths per mile is relatively low is cold comfort to hyper-mobile families and communities that lose more than 40,000 loved ones a year to traffic crashes. By the more tangible measure of traffic-caused funerals per million people, the United States now scores 27th worst among 31 countries in an international road accident database. CHARLES KOMANOFF New York, Nov. 28, 2003 The writer is coordinator of the pedestrian advocacy group Right of Way and the author of a book about traffic safety. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/04/opinion/L04TRAF.html RELATED ARTICLES Once World Leader in Traffic Safety, U.S. Drops to No. 9 (November 27, 2003) I published a letter along these lines in the NYT several years ago, thus:

December 4, 2003

Reducing Traffic Deaths

To the Editor:

The criterion by which the United States is ranked No. 9 in traffic safety, fatalities per million miles driven (news article, Nov. 27), bears little connection to real life.

Americans drive more than any other people — twice as much per capita as the equally prosperous Germans, for example — because our sprawl-strewn landscapes require it.

That our rate of deaths per mile is relatively low is cold comfort to hyper-mobile families and communities that lose more than 40,000 loved ones a year to traffic crashes.

By the more tangible measure of traffic-caused funerals per million people, the United States now scores 27th worst among 31 countries in an international road accident database.

CHARLES KOMANOFF
New York, Nov. 28, 2003
The writer is coordinator of the pedestrian advocacy group Right of Way and the author of a book about traffic safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/04/opinion/L04TRAF.html

RELATED ARTICLES
Once World Leader in Traffic Safety, U.S. Drops to No. 9 (November 27, 2003)

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34390 Angus Grieve-Smith Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:57:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34390 That's it, I'm moving to Malta. Seriously, though, it's interesting to see the progress that some of these European countries have made over the years. That's it, I'm moving to Malta.

Seriously, though, it's interesting to see the progress that some of these European countries have made over the years.

]]> By: Khal http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34389 Khal Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:18:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34389 Per million people, the U.S. also does poorly. That was a sidebar in the Times article illustration which Charlie posted above. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/20/automobiles/22safety_graph.html Americans may have to drive farther due to suburbanization, but risk goes beyond miles driven. Low degrees of training, infrastructure that has not kept up with changes in use, and lax enforcement compared to some European nations probably factors into this as well. Per million people, the U.S. also does poorly. That was a sidebar in the Times article illustration which Charlie posted above.
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/20/automobiles/22safety_graph.html

Americans may have to drive farther due to suburbanization, but risk goes beyond miles driven. Low degrees of training, infrastructure that has not kept up with changes in use, and lax enforcement compared to some European nations probably factors into this as well.

]]> By: Greg Raisman http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34388 Greg Raisman Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:03:07 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34388 This is another really good article on the subject that compares multiple trends in US to Canada, Austrailia, and Great Britain: http://www.scienceservingsociety.com/p/161.pdf Enjoy. Greg Raisman Community and School Traffic Safety Partnership Portland Office of Transportation This is another really good article on the subject that compares multiple trends in US to Canada, Austrailia, and Great Britain:

http://www.scienceservingsociety.com/p/161.pdf

Enjoy.
Greg Raisman
Community and School Traffic Safety Partnership
Portland Office of Transportation

]]> By: dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34387 dan Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:48:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34387 The numbers are better for these other countries because the residents there can choose to not drive. If more Americans could keep away from driving when tired or distracted, we'd all be better off. We need to change our culture so that 'freedom to drive' doesn't take on thbe trapping of a religious rite. The numbers are better for these other countries because the residents there can choose to not drive. If more Americans could keep away from driving when tired or distracted, we'd all be better off.

We need to change our culture so that 'freedom to drive' doesn't take on thbe trapping of a religious rite.

]]> By: Charles Siegel http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34386 Charles Siegel Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:01:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34386 I agree with Bow. If we really want to see how much damage the automobile causes, we have to correct on a per capita basis rather than a per mile basis. For example, the graph shows that the US and France have about an equal number of fatalities per mile. But that means that Americans have at least twice the chance of being killed in a car accident, because Americans drive at least twice as much as the French. I agree with Bow. If we really want to see how much damage the automobile causes, we have to correct on a per capita basis rather than a per mile basis.

For example, the graph shows that the US and France have about an equal number of fatalities per mile. But that means that Americans have at least twice the chance of being killed in a car accident, because Americans drive at least twice as much as the French.

]]> By: JKR http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34385 JKR Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:54:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34385 A. Cyclist: The study took into account fatalities per distance driven. I'm not sure what you mean by adjusting for "amount of available road". What would that tell us? This is quoted directly from the article: And in what many safety experts consider a more precise measure, fatalities per distance driven, the United States was No. 1 in 1970 with the lowest death rate among industrialized countries reporting data. It now ranks 11th, with some countries reporting rates that are 25 percent lower. A. Cyclist:

The study took into account fatalities per distance driven. I'm not sure what you mean by adjusting for "amount of available road". What would that tell us? This is quoted directly from the article:

And in what many safety experts consider a more precise measure, fatalities per distance driven, the United States was No. 1 in 1970 with the lowest death rate among industrialized countries reporting data. It now ranks 11th, with some countries reporting rates that are 25 percent lower.

]]> By: Bow http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34384 Bow Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:52:12 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34384 I'm not sure I agree with A. Cyclist. Most Americans live in metropolitan areas. They are not driving across cornfields or deserts to get to work or other destinations, so pure square-mileage isn't that significant a factor. But because our transportation system forces most people to drive, we kill more people off just via travel. This comparative graph would probably look a lot worse per 100,000 population rather than per-miles-driven. I'm not sure I agree with A. Cyclist. Most Americans live in metropolitan areas. They are not driving across cornfields or deserts to get to work or other destinations, so pure square-mileage isn't that significant a factor. But because our transportation system forces most people to drive, we kill more people off just via travel. This comparative graph would probably look a lot worse per 100,000 population rather than per-miles-driven.

]]> By: A. Cyclist http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-34383 A. Cyclist Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:05:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/23/safety-first-true-once-but-us-now-lags-in-road-deaths/#comment-34383 These statistics are misleading. The United States is a large country, and Americans drive many more billions of kilometers than Europeans or the Japanese. If adjusted for amount of available road, the U.S. would come out much better. I still don't like our auto-centric society, though. These statistics are misleading. The United States is a large country, and Americans drive many more billions of kilometers than Europeans or the Japanese. If adjusted for amount of available road, the U.S. would come out much better. I still don't like our auto-centric society, though.

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