Comments on: The London Model is Dead. Time to Look at Paris. http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34206 Angus Grieve-Smith Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:53:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34206 "Serious" transportation engineers only talk about smart cars, if you believe the prevalence of stories on <a href="http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/transport-communications/" rel="nofollow">Bernie Wagenblast's Transportation Communications Newsletter</a> (linked from <a href="http://subwayblogger.com/2007/07/16/one-for-the-transit-geeks/" rel="nofollow">The Subwayblogger</a>. Weird. “Serious” transportation engineers only talk about smart cars, if you believe the prevalence of stories on Bernie Wagenblast’s Transportation Communications Newsletter (linked from The Subwayblogger. Weird.

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34193 gecko Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:53:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34193 Not unlike cars, hermit crabs carry their homes with them on their backs. And, they're kind of comical and impractical in a lot of ways. Luckily, they haven't figured out how to achieve the power to move fast. Once you start having vehicles at human scale weighing in at 100 pounds or less -- 50 pounds or less for bicycles -- things start getting real interesting. It's a shame that it seems that most transportation engineers don't understand this which is why so called "serious" transportation doesn't really do the job. Not unlike cars, hermit crabs carry their homes with them on their backs. And, they’re kind of comical and impractical in a lot of ways. Luckily, they haven’t figured out how to achieve the power to move fast.

Once you start having vehicles at human scale weighing in at 100 pounds or less — 50 pounds or less for bicycles — things start getting real interesting.

It’s a shame that it seems that most transportation engineers don’t understand this which is why so called “serious” transportation doesn’t really do the job.

]]> By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34177 Doc Barnett Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:44:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34177 "By 'populism' do you mean social justice?" Look it up, dear. “By ‘populism’ do you mean social justice?”

Look it up, dear.

]]> By: andrew http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34172 andrew Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:06:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34172 even if it reduces TAXI traffic it could be a great improvement, say for business people taking short trips. even if it reduces TAXI traffic it could be a great improvement, say for business people taking short trips.

]]> By: sean http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34162 sean Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:32:29 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34162 If we do something like this, we'd need to totally redesign the streets to make them bike-friendly; the average person (especially the average tourist) is not going to be comfortable, probably rightly, riding a bike on say Houston Street. Even the lanes are unsafe. For now Bloomberg should probably resort to less drastic measures of taxing drivers (double existing tolls and toll the East River bridges, for a start...). And maybe a personal 8-dollar per block toll on Sheldon Silver. If we do something like this, we’d need to totally redesign the streets to make them bike-friendly; the average person (especially the average tourist) is not going to be comfortable, probably rightly, riding a bike on say Houston Street. Even the lanes are unsafe.

For now Bloomberg should probably resort to less drastic measures of taxing drivers (double existing tolls and toll the East River bridges, for a start…). And maybe a personal 8-dollar per block toll on Sheldon Silver.

]]> By: Charles Siegel http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34154 Charles Siegel Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:37:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34154 Delanoe's main strategy is to reduce traffic by reducing road space for cars - converting lanes to bus-only lanes and bike lanes. Bike sharing alone won't do it. Delanoe’s main strategy is to reduce traffic by reducing road space for cars – converting lanes to bus-only lanes and bike lanes.

Bike sharing alone won’t do it.

]]> By: some dude http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34152 some dude Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:34:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34152 I have to agree, this won't reduce cars at all! I much prefer the reduction/elimination of much of the street parking in the city. Let's turn some of the parking into wider sidewalks or separated bike lanes. (Then maybe a Paris-like bike sharing program could work.) People won't drive in if they have nowhere to park...and at least parking garages charge market rates, unlike meters. I have to agree, this won’t reduce cars at all! I much prefer the reduction/elimination of much of the street parking in the city. Let’s turn some of the parking into wider sidewalks or separated bike lanes. (Then maybe a Paris-like bike sharing program could work.) People won’t drive in if they have nowhere to park…and at least parking garages charge market rates, unlike meters.

]]> By: r http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34151 r Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:25:45 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34151 This will not do anything to mitigate the impact of cars coming in from the outer boroughs, Westchester, LI, and New Jersey. And no one is riding these to, say, Yankee Stadium, and then taking a late night ride back home. I would suspect that one market for these bikes in NYC would be people who would otherwise take the subway. (A DUMBO resident who works in Lower Manhattan, a Village resident who works in Midtown, etc.) So, perhaps it would free up a few seats on the subway, but it would do little to ease traffic above ground. The other market, and it's also tiny, would be people who would ride to work if only they could get secure bike parking. But it's probably such a small number that I doubt it would have any effect. Bike sharing is great if it's seen as one tiny part of mass transit and if it makes cycling a more visible presence in this city. Anything bigger than that is true pie in the sky thinking. This will not do anything to mitigate the impact of cars coming in from the outer boroughs, Westchester, LI, and New Jersey. And no one is riding these to, say, Yankee Stadium, and then taking a late night ride back home.

I would suspect that one market for these bikes in NYC would be people who would otherwise take the subway. (A DUMBO resident who works in Lower Manhattan, a Village resident who works in Midtown, etc.) So, perhaps it would free up a few seats on the subway, but it would do little to ease traffic above ground.

The other market, and it’s also tiny, would be people who would ride to work if only they could get secure bike parking. But it’s probably such a small number that I doubt it would have any effect.

Bike sharing is great if it’s seen as one tiny part of mass transit and if it makes cycling a more visible presence in this city. Anything bigger than that is true pie in the sky thinking.

]]> By: George Haikalis http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34149 George Haikalis Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:23:41 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34149 Reducing vehicle-miles of travel in the core of the city will certainly make bike travel easier. But the vast majority of New Yorkers travel to he core by public transit. Billions of dollars of public funds have been spent over the past 25 years to make the system more reliable and attractive. Except for two subway lines, MTA could run many more trains during peak hours. This would cost more money. Some 900 serviceable subway cars are slated to be junked (perhaps to provide more elbow room for sardines in the Atlantic Ocean). These cars could be retained for another dozen years, allowing a 10 to 20% gain in service to occur in the next couple of years, as new cars now on order arrive. If the city's congestion pricing plan had directed some of its revenue stream to making the existing system better, it might have had a chance of making it. A key problem is the large gap between advocates of "green transport" and rail advocates who often get absorbed in the nitty-gritty. Many thanks to streetsblog for posting the next meeting of the Regional Rail Working Group (which is tonight) and providing a link to our website. Reducing vehicle-miles of travel in the core of the city will certainly make bike travel easier. But the vast majority of New Yorkers travel to he core by public transit. Billions of dollars of public funds have been spent over the past 25 years to make the system more reliable and attractive. Except for two subway lines, MTA could run many more trains during peak hours. This would cost more money. Some 900 serviceable subway cars are slated to be junked (perhaps to provide more elbow room for sardines in the Atlantic Ocean). These cars could be retained for another dozen years, allowing a 10 to 20% gain in service to occur in the next couple of years, as new cars now on order arrive. If the city’s congestion pricing plan had directed some of its revenue stream to making the existing system better, it might have had a chance of making it.

A key problem is the large gap between advocates of “green transport” and rail advocates who often get absorbed in the nitty-gritty. Many thanks to streetsblog for posting the next meeting of the Regional Rail Working Group (which is tonight) and providing a link to our website.

]]> By: David http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34145 David Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:03:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34145 "Now I suppose we can "tax the rich" as all those helpful populist congestion pricing opponents suggested." It should happen. Of course, you can always take a defeatist approach and constrain all of our public solutions to those vetted by a wealthy few. But, iff a candidate for Mayor ran on a platform of increasing city income tax on the wealthy specifically for improvements to mass transportation, he or she might find find a large amount of popularity in the polity. That would require the gumption to stand up to the wealthy, which is something corporatist Democrats completely lack. (I mean, the national party can't even pass an increased minimum wage without forcing government to pay for it, instead of the wealthy!) As an aside, it appears that economists have a staunch disdain for "populism." By "populism" do you mean social justice? Or are you referring to any program that proposes alternatives to radical capitalism? “Now I suppose we can “tax the rich” as all those helpful populist congestion pricing opponents suggested.”

It should happen. Of course, you can always take a defeatist approach and constrain all of our public solutions to those vetted by a wealthy few. But, iff a candidate for Mayor ran on a platform of increasing city income tax on the wealthy specifically for improvements to mass transportation, he or she might find find a large amount of popularity in the polity. That would require the gumption to stand up to the wealthy, which is something corporatist Democrats completely lack. (I mean, the national party can’t even pass an increased minimum wage without forcing government to pay for it, instead of the wealthy!)

As an aside, it appears that economists have a staunch disdain for “populism.” By “populism” do you mean social justice? Or are you referring to any program that proposes alternatives to radical capitalism?

]]> By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34126 Doc Barnett Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:55:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34126 Closing down some streets to cars, all of the time or during certain hours, will get rid of that traffic. Delanoë's reforms seemed to be concentrated in the Marais (hmm) as walking around that hood is noticeably better than previously, and leaving it we were surprised to find the same old bad street crossings and heavy traffic. As long as the political will is there to expand those reforms it could work out really well. On the other hand, Paris already has public transportation that is well funded and decades ahead of New York's; congestion pricing was our best hope to fund ours properly. Now I suppose we can "tax the rich" as all those helpful populist congestion pricing opponents suggested. Wake me up when that happens, as I might have escaped to another time zone. Closing down some streets to cars, all of the time or during certain hours, will get rid of that traffic. Delanoë’s reforms seemed to be concentrated in the Marais (hmm) as walking around that hood is noticeably better than previously, and leaving it we were surprised to find the same old bad street crossings and heavy traffic. As long as the political will is there to expand those reforms it could work out really well.

On the other hand, Paris already has public transportation that is well funded and decades ahead of New York’s; congestion pricing was our best hope to fund ours properly. Now I suppose we can “tax the rich” as all those helpful populist congestion pricing opponents suggested. Wake me up when that happens, as I might have escaped to another time zone.

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34125 gecko Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:53:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34125 You can buy a lot of bikes for half a billion dollars. You can buy a lot of bikes for half a billion dollars.

]]> By: Dimbulb http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/comment-page-1/#comment-34118 Dimbulb Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:25:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/07/18/the-london-model-is-dead-time-to-look-at-paris/#comment-34118 Does anyone think this will really get NY'ers out of cars? Better mobility for some pedestrians and some diversion from crowded subways or slow buses, yes, but less traffic? Does anyone think this will really get NY’ers out of cars? Better mobility for some pedestrians and some diversion from crowded subways or slow buses, yes, but less traffic?

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