Comments on: New “Bike Boxes” Send Cyclists to the Front of the Line http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:07:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: DXW http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-33269 DXW Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:14:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-33269 San Francisco's had a few for awhile. One on EB 14th approaching Folsom, and one on NB Scott approaching Oak (that one shows up in google streetview): http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.773886,-122.436211&spn=0.00304,0.004989&z=18&om=1&layer=c&cbll=37.773146,-122.435732&cbp=1,362.28846312299,0.487919331531241,0 San Francisco's had a few for awhile. One on EB 14th approaching Folsom, and one on NB Scott approaching Oak (that one shows up in google streetview):

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.773886,-122.436211&spn=0.00304,0.004989&z=18&om=1&layer=c&cbll=37.773146,-122.435732&cbp=1,362.28846312299,0.487919331531241,0

]]> By: Dave http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32887 Dave Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:19:32 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32887 Ian - Gwin is correct that the "rush hour" parking regulations that allow the parking lane to be used as a moving lane are mutually exclusive of the bike lane. The parking lane is wide enough for vehicles to use that if they need to - the rush hour regulations do not give permission for cars to be in the bike lane, which is still illegal. Ian - Gwin is correct that the "rush hour" parking regulations that allow the parking lane to be used as a moving lane are mutually exclusive of the bike lane. The parking lane is wide enough for vehicles to use that if they need to - the rush hour regulations do not give permission for cars to be in the bike lane, which is still illegal.

]]> By: Gwin http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32886 Gwin Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:40:03 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32886 Ian: I don't have a problem with cars using the lane next to the curb that is indeed cleared for turning at certain hours -- it's when they straddle the bike lane AND either the regular lane or the curbside lane that bikers are put at risk (since they merge into you without looking and/or force bikers to weave in/out of cars to get to the front) Ian: I don't have a problem with cars using the lane next to the curb that is indeed cleared for turning at certain hours -- it's when they straddle the bike lane AND either the regular lane or the curbside lane that bikers are put at risk (since they merge into you without looking and/or force bikers to weave in/out of cars to get to the front)

]]> By: Susan Murray http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32885 Susan Murray Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:20:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32885 The wikipedia entry for "bike box" needs some TLC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_stop_line The wikipedia entry for "bike box" needs some TLC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_stop_line

]]> By: Susan Murray http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32884 Susan Murray Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:15:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32884 I was checking out the bike boxes on Market Street near the Manhattan bridge and EVERY car stopped in the right place. It was really great! I was checking out the bike boxes on Market Street near the Manhattan bridge and EVERY car stopped in the right place. It was really great!

]]> By: LisaB http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32880 LisaB Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:20:03 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32880 As a casual cyclist, I have to say bike boxes make me feel much more secure in navigating intersections. Vancouver's bike boxes are painted red so it's even more obvious to divers: http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/union2.htm#after Interesting pamphlet on bike boxes too: http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/pdf/bikebox.pdf As a casual cyclist, I have to say bike boxes make me feel much more secure in navigating intersections. Vancouver's bike boxes are painted red so it's even more obvious to divers: http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/union2.htm#after

Interesting pamphlet on bike boxes too: http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/pdf/bikebox.pdf

]]> By: Ian D http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32867 Ian D Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:43:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32867 Gwin: Funny you mention this. I had a drawn-out discussion with a bunch of cops over this. I was complaining to the Traffic Agents there about this very situation when a patrol car pulled up and did the same thing! I went and discussed it with the cops, who were sitting right there in their car blocking the bike lane, and they pointed out that the curb reg. actually is set to make that a turn lane in the pm. So what really should happen, at the least, is that DOT should mark that cars can use that lane at time - like what they do when bike lanes pass bus stops. Or even better - change the curb reg. so that bikes keep their priority in the bike lane. Gwin:

Funny you mention this. I had a drawn-out discussion with a bunch of cops over this. I was complaining to the Traffic Agents there about this very situation when a patrol car pulled up and did the same thing! I went and discussed it with the cops, who were sitting right there in their car blocking the bike lane, and they pointed out that the curb reg. actually is set to make that a turn lane in the pm.

So what really should happen, at the least, is that DOT should mark that cars can use that lane at time - like what they do when bike lanes pass bus stops. Or even better - change the curb reg. so that bikes keep their priority in the bike lane.

]]> By: Gwin http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32859 Gwin Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:49:41 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32859 I would love to see a bike box at the intersection of Delancey and Allen... as it is, drivers do NOT respect the bike lane at all on the northbound side, using it as an extra right-turn lane to get onto Delancey street. The traffic cops there in the morning turn a complete blind eye to this... I have several calls in to the DOT to correct this (by putting up poles to protect the bike lane the way they have them at Herald Square) but so far, nothing's happened. What a shocker. I would love to see a bike box at the intersection of Delancey and Allen... as it is, drivers do NOT respect the bike lane at all on the northbound side, using it as an extra right-turn lane to get onto Delancey street. The traffic cops there in the morning turn a complete blind eye to this...

I have several calls in to the DOT to correct this (by putting up poles to protect the bike lane the way they have them at Herald Square) but so far, nothing's happened. What a shocker.

]]> By: Ian D http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32847 Ian D Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:57:52 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32847 Isetta (#20): While I was observing, the cars were incredible respectful of the bike box. In 10 minutes, not one stopped in the bike box. Maybe that's just because the fresh paint was so clear. However, because W. 9th St. makes a 30deg. left turn to become Christopher St. at this intersection, the whole end of the bike lane as it enters the bike box became a de facto second lane for cars continuing onto Christopher. If this situation continues, I think we'll ask DOT for additional lane markings through Sixth Ave. Isetta (#20):

While I was observing, the cars were incredible respectful of the bike box. In 10 minutes, not one stopped in the bike box. Maybe that's just because the fresh paint was so clear.

However, because W. 9th St. makes a 30deg. left turn to become Christopher St. at this intersection, the whole end of the bike lane as it enters the bike box became a de facto second lane for cars continuing onto Christopher. If this situation continues, I think we'll ask DOT for additional lane markings through Sixth Ave.

]]> By: Susan Murray http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32845 Susan Murray Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:11:16 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32845 Steve: they are needed for the streets that cross Houston, that's what I thought people were talking about. I've given up on going down that street. I just stay away from it after seeing a bad hit and run. Steve: they are needed for the streets that cross Houston, that's what I thought people were talking about.

I've given up on going down that street. I just stay away from it after seeing a bad hit and run.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32840 Steve Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:47:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32840 Stacy, good idea to include bicycle signage and rules in the drivers' license exam. As you and Isetta point out, most motorists don't have a clue as to what bike boxes, Class II bike lanes, or "sharrows" mean. Bicyclists have to educate them. It's a lot easier to do that when the signs and markings are there. flp (#16), I definitely agree that the interruption in the 8th Ave. bike lane north of 57th stinks. Instead of bike lane, they have created a parking lot for NYPD (on Central Park West). But the bike box does advise northbound bicyclists--correctly, in my view-- to get right before entering Columbus Circle. If you enter Columbus Circle from the left side of 8th, you invite unnecessary danger and stress because you have to compete with both the northbound and southbound traffic in the circle in order to get to Central Park West. Also, I don't understand how bike boxes would work on Houston--they are used primarily where bicyclistshave to switch sides of the raodway--where does that occur on Houston? Stacy, good idea to include bicycle signage and rules in the drivers' license exam. As you and Isetta point out, most motorists don't have a clue as to what bike boxes, Class II bike lanes, or "sharrows" mean. Bicyclists have to educate them. It's a lot easier to do that when the signs and markings are there.

flp (#16), I definitely agree that the interruption in the 8th Ave. bike lane north of 57th stinks. Instead of bike lane, they have created a parking lot for NYPD (on Central Park West). But the bike box does advise northbound bicyclists--correctly, in my view-- to get right before entering Columbus Circle. If you enter Columbus Circle from the left side of 8th, you invite unnecessary danger and stress because you have to compete with both the northbound and southbound traffic in the circle in order to get to Central Park West.

Also, I don't understand how bike boxes would work on Houston--they are used primarily where bicyclistshave to switch sides of the raodway--where does that occur on Houston?

]]> By: Stacy http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32838 Stacy Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:10:24 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32838 There's been some Bike Box signage near Waterside Plaza for several years now though I don't remember seeing an actual bike box as shown above. Still, I wonder how many people, particularly motorists, understand what a bike box, or even those chevron shared lane markings are supposed to mean. And if people don't understand them, what's the point? Maybe DMV should add some bicycle specific questions to the written test when drivers apply for a license. Maybe there should be a bike box and some bike lanes included in road test sites. There's been some Bike Box signage near Waterside Plaza for several years now though I don't remember seeing an actual bike box as shown above. Still, I wonder how many people, particularly motorists, understand what a bike box, or even those chevron shared lane markings are supposed to mean. And if people don't understand them, what's the point?

Maybe DMV should add some bicycle specific questions to the written test when drivers apply for a license. Maybe there should be a bike box and some bike lanes included in road test sites.

]]> By: Isetta http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32829 Isetta Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:07:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32829 This will never work. Most drivers already treat stop lines as "suggestions." They'll stop right over the boxes the way half of them protrude over the crosswalks already. This will never work. Most drivers already treat stop lines as "suggestions." They'll stop right over the boxes the way half of them protrude over the crosswalks already.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32823 Steve Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:56:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32823 The problem with that bike box that Alex links to is that it guides bicyclists to the right, when in all likelihood they will want to keep to the left while southbound on Columbus so that they can make the left turn at Columbus 77th and continue eastbound. Also, there is no bike box on the eastern leg of the intersection of Columbus and 77th, where one is deperately need because bicyclists proceeding west have to cross in front of vehicular traffic in order to stay in the bike lane as they cross Columbus. The problem with that bike box that Alex links to is that it guides bicyclists to the right, when in all likelihood they will want to keep to the left while southbound on Columbus so that they can make the left turn at Columbus 77th and continue eastbound. Also, there is no bike box on the eastern leg of the intersection of Columbus and 77th, where one is deperately need because bicyclists proceeding west have to cross in front of vehicular traffic in order to stay in the bike lane as they cross Columbus.

]]> By: alex http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32821 alex Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:48:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32821 <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/10/11/new-bike-markings-on-the-upper-west-side/#comments" rel="nofollow">Here is the link</a> to the SB post with a photo of the box on W. 78th St. and Columbus Ave. Here is the link to the SB post with a photo of the box on W. 78th St. and Columbus Ave.

]]> By: alex http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32820 alex Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:39:23 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32820 Additionally, there has also been a bike box @ W.78th and Columbus since October 11, 2006. I just sent the pic into SB in case they want to publish it too. Additionally, there has also been a bike box @ W.78th and Columbus since October 11, 2006. I just sent the pic into SB in case they want to publish it too.

]]> By: flp http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32815 flp Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:51:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32815 yes, ddartley is correct on both points: there is a bike box at 8th ave and 57th, and it is not well designed. for those not familiar with the intersection or 8th avenue, the main problem with the bike box is that it also is the end of the bike lane which the d.o.t. and city council REFUSED to extend to and through columbus circle - yet, another half-assed attempt at "improving" cycling infrastructure! yes, ddartley is correct on both points: there is a bike box at 8th ave and 57th, and it is not well designed.

for those not familiar with the intersection or 8th avenue, the main problem with the bike box is that it also is the end of the bike lane which the d.o.t. and city council REFUSED to extend to and through columbus circle - yet, another half-assed attempt at "improving" cycling infrastructure!

]]> By: Susan Murray http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32805 Susan Murray Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:19:28 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32805 If anyplace needs them it's Houston. That thing is a giant death trap. Why did the DOT "give up" ? If anyplace needs them it's Houston. That thing is a giant death trap. Why did the DOT "give up" ?

]]> By: ln http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32801 ln Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:44:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32801 When I was in london, I was often paused in these bike boxes, and they really do work. Plus its thrilling to be there at night, abreast with 10 or more other cyclists blinking lights together, reminding drivers that we go first! Unfortunately we may never see bike boxes on Houston Street, because some elected and appointed officials have allowed DOT to give up on making Houston St. safe for cyclists. I say we should paint our own! When I was in london, I was often paused in these bike boxes, and they really do work. Plus its thrilling to be there at night, abreast with 10 or more other cyclists blinking lights together, reminding drivers that we go first!

Unfortunately we may never see bike boxes on Houston Street, because some elected and appointed officials have allowed DOT to give up on making Houston St. safe for cyclists. I say we should paint our own!

]]> By: Susan Murray http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-32800 Susan Murray Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:39:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/06/19/new-bike-boxes-send-cyclists-to-the-front-of-the-line/#comment-32800 "Since when has the lack of bike boxes prevented bikers from doing whatever the heck they want at intersections anyway?" Since never, Spud. But why make it so hard for um... less "wild" people to bike? If biking is only for hard-core trackies and seasoned messangers then it's not going to be that popular. Maybe these boxes will get some of the more timid people out on the road. I must admit I don't *love* bike lanes since I'd rather just find my own path, but some people won't go on streets unless they have a lane. It makes people feel more safe. Let's make it easy, you know, for the people. "Since when has the lack of bike boxes prevented bikers from doing whatever the heck they want at intersections anyway?"

Since never, Spud. But why make it so hard for um... less "wild" people to bike? If biking is only for hard-core trackies and seasoned messangers then it's not going to be that popular. Maybe these boxes will get some of the more timid people out on the road.

I must admit I don't *love* bike lanes since I'd rather just find my own path, but some people won't go on streets unless they have a lane. It makes people feel more safe.

Let's make it easy, you know, for the people.

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