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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Pricing Council Member Has Pro-Parking Industry Fans</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31677</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 00:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31677</guid>
		<description>Funny enough, I just got a call from a guy who identified himself as a Quinnipiac pollster and asked me a bunch of questions about congestion pricing, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny enough, I just got a call from a guy who identified himself as a Quinnipiac pollster and asked me a bunch of questions about congestion pricing, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31676</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 23:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31676</guid>
		<description>NY1 has a &quot;snap poll&quot; on congestion pricing:

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/Polls/index.jsp

For some reason my vote didn&#039;t register.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NY1 has a "snap poll" on congestion pricing:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ny1.com/ny1/Polls/index.jsp" rel="nofollow">http://www.ny1.com/ny1/Polls/index.jsp</a></p>
<p>For some reason my vote didn't register.</p>
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		<title>By: momos</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31667</link>
		<dc:creator>momos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 18:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31667</guid>
		<description>I just had a very interesting phone debate with the legislative director at the NY chapter of AAA (516-873-2254 if you&#039;re interested in having some fun with them). They were mentioned in a NY Sun article as among the anti-congestion pricing lobbyists present in Albany yesterday.

The lady had 3 main points: 1). Congestion pricing hasn&#039;t worked in London. The proof is that they&#039;ve raised the tolls. 2). Congestion pricing is elitist. 3). Congestion pricing will hurt businesses.

Point 1 is factually false. Point 2 is philosophical, but it&#039;s logic is essentially libertarian and would oppose many things with widespread acceptance, such as cigarette taxes. Point 3 is not only false, but the opposite of what every business association in the city except the Queens Chamber of Commerce maintains.

It&#039;s just incredible how feeble a grasp of facts the opposition has. But they throw a lot of red meat to the peanut gallery, which is a tactic that might work. Politically successful debate is rarely deeply informed and well-reasoned.

I pushed AAA&#039;s legislative director to come up with an alternative. She eventually said &quot;improve mass transit.&quot; I said, ok, where&#039;s the money going to come from? She said it wasn&#039;t fair to ask AAA to figure that out. I said that for any proposal to improve mass transit to be taken seriously she would have to address the funding issue. And around we went.

If congestion pricing fails it will be a setback for sustainability in NYC, but it will also represent a triumph of poorly-reasoned, badly-informed reactionary politics. (Nothing new there I suppose.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just had a very interesting phone debate with the legislative director at the NY chapter of AAA (516-873-2254 if you're interested in having some fun with them). They were mentioned in a NY Sun article as among the anti-congestion pricing lobbyists present in Albany yesterday.</p>
<p>The lady had 3 main points: 1). Congestion pricing hasn't worked in London. The proof is that they've raised the tolls. 2). Congestion pricing is elitist. 3). Congestion pricing will hurt businesses.</p>
<p>Point 1 is factually false. Point 2 is philosophical, but it's logic is essentially libertarian and would oppose many things with widespread acceptance, such as cigarette taxes. Point 3 is not only false, but the opposite of what every business association in the city except the Queens Chamber of Commerce maintains.</p>
<p>It's just incredible how feeble a grasp of facts the opposition has. But they throw a lot of red meat to the peanut gallery, which is a tactic that might work. Politically successful debate is rarely deeply informed and well-reasoned.</p>
<p>I pushed AAA's legislative director to come up with an alternative. She eventually said "improve mass transit." I said, ok, where's the money going to come from? She said it wasn't fair to ask AAA to figure that out. I said that for any proposal to improve mass transit to be taken seriously she would have to address the funding issue. And around we went.</p>
<p>If congestion pricing fails it will be a setback for sustainability in NYC, but it will also represent a triumph of poorly-reasoned, badly-informed reactionary politics. (Nothing new there I suppose.)</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31660</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 17:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31660</guid>
		<description>Gregg,

Raising money for public transportation is not the only goal of congestion pricing or really the primary goal.  The goal is to encourage drivers to switch to public transportation and from a number of studies posted here, the $8 a day really is the only thing that&#039;s going to change people&#039;s behavior.   For people who are unwilling (again, the studies posted here show that people are largely commuting by choice, not necessity) to make the switch, they&#039;ll support people who do use more efficient methods of transportation.

I agree that its not the most efficient method, but sometimes efficiency isn&#039;t the goal.   You&#039;re also being misleading in using the term &quot;taxpayers&quot;.   It a fee for usage that only applies to people who make a certain choice to drive into a certain area, not just because they reside in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregg,</p>
<p>Raising money for public transportation is not the only goal of congestion pricing or really the primary goal.  The goal is to encourage drivers to switch to public transportation and from a number of studies posted here, the $8 a day really is the only thing that's going to change people's behavior.   For people who are unwilling (again, the studies posted here show that people are largely commuting by choice, not necessity) to make the switch, they'll support people who do use more efficient methods of transportation.</p>
<p>I agree that its not the most efficient method, but sometimes efficiency isn't the goal.   You're also being misleading in using the term "taxpayers".   It a fee for usage that only applies to people who make a certain choice to drive into a certain area, not just because they reside in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregg R.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31655</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregg R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 16:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31655</guid>
		<description>The idea is noble, but the economics are not efficient.  Why burden the taxpayers with over $600 million in fees to only net $300 million for &quot;transportation improvements&quot;.  Why not add a surcharge when renewing or registering a vehicle in addition to increasing the cost of permits given to developers to close lanes of traffic during construction and tripling the block the box fines.  Bloomberg should be able to raise $600 million and improve traffic flow without spending $300 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea is noble, but the economics are not efficient.  Why burden the taxpayers with over $600 million in fees to only net $300 million for "transportation improvements".  Why not add a surcharge when renewing or registering a vehicle in addition to increasing the cost of permits given to developers to close lanes of traffic during construction and tripling the block the box fines.  Bloomberg should be able to raise $600 million and improve traffic flow without spending $300 million.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31639</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 22:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31639</guid>
		<description>&quot;Improving traffic management, offering incentives to motorists and businesses to use mass transit, and improving the public transportation system, especially in the outer-boroughs will also reduce traffic without having to impose another tax.&quot;

How in the world does he expect to pay for those incentives and those transit improvements without raising the funds through some tax or other?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Improving traffic management, offering incentives to motorists and businesses to use mass transit, and improving the public transportation system, especially in the outer-boroughs will also reduce traffic without having to impose another tax."</p>
<p>How in the world does he expect to pay for those incentives and those transit improvements without raising the funds through some tax or other?</p>
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		<title>By: Joeventures</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-31638</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeventures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 22:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/05/14/anti-pricing-council-member-has-pro-parking-industry-fans/#comment-31638</guid>
		<description>Kind of an odd thing. Here in Atlanta, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lanierparking.com/WWW/index.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;parking lot and garage owner Lanier Parking&lt;/a&gt; has been campaigning aggressively for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atlantastreetcar.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Atlanta Streetcar&lt;/a&gt;. You would normally think that these folks would be against progressive transportation policies. But unlike most parking lot owners, Lanier is smart. They see their long-term investment not in parking revenue, but in land value.

It&#039;s a long-term strategy that benefits everyone. I would hope the parking garage owners, upon seeing the land value dollars flowing from increased quality of life, would get Weprin to change his mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kind of an odd thing. Here in Atlanta, <a href="http://www.lanierparking.com/WWW/index.aspx" rel="nofollow">parking lot and garage owner Lanier Parking</a> has been campaigning aggressively for the <a href="http://www.atlantastreetcar.com/" rel="nofollow">Atlanta Streetcar</a>. You would normally think that these folks would be against progressive transportation policies. But unlike most parking lot owners, Lanier is smart. They see their long-term investment not in parking revenue, but in land value.</p>
<p>It's a long-term strategy that benefits everyone. I would hope the parking garage owners, upon seeing the land value dollars flowing from increased quality of life, would get Weprin to change his mind.</p>
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