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	<title>Comments on: What $13 Billion Looks Like</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: crzwdjk</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31124</link>
		<dc:creator>crzwdjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31124</guid>
		<description>Dan: your math is off. It&#039;s $300 per month, not per year. If you divide $300 by the average 23 working days per month, you get $13 per day. This makes the total cost of fuel and parking $19 per day. A monthly commuter rail pass plus Metrocard is cheaper than this, pretty much for anywhere that commuter rail goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan: your math is off. It&#8217;s $300 per month, not per year. If you divide $300 by the average 23 working days per month, you get $13 per day. This makes the total cost of fuel and parking $19 per day. A monthly commuter rail pass plus Metrocard is cheaper than this, pretty much for anywhere that commuter rail goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Berthet</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31123</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Berthet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31123</guid>
		<description>What this charts misses is the health cost 
pedestrain safety alone would be a $ 1 billion annually. 

the asthma and lung diseases costs woudl be staggering and it politically sells much better than these numbers

we need your help in developping those rapidly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this charts misses is the health cost<br />
pedestrain safety alone would be a $ 1 billion annually. </p>
<p>the asthma and lung diseases costs woudl be staggering and it politically sells much better than these numbers</p>
<p>we need your help in developping those rapidly</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31118</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31118</guid>
		<description>$28,260 a year, Glenn?  That&#039;s an amazing number.   It&#039;d be cheaper just to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15340&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;buy them all cars&lt;/a&gt; ... oh wait.

I&#039;d like to see the cost per taxpayer of all that congestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$28,260 a year, Glenn?  That&#8217;s an amazing number.   It&#8217;d be cheaper just to <a href="http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15340" rel="nofollow">buy them all cars</a> &#8230; oh wait.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see the cost per taxpayer of all that congestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31116</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31116</guid>
		<description>Can someone do the math on the average cost of car ownership in the city.  Parking + Insurance + Car Payments + Gas + Maintenance = ?  

I don&#039;t even know HOW to drive so I&#039;m at a loss, but Imagining that people drive 10-15 Miles to work(I think this is very conservative but lets talk NYC).  That&#039;s at least a gallon of gas per direction at $3.00 that&#039;s about $6.00 per day just in fuel costs.  Assuming an annual insurance  cost of $2000(I got this from a money magazine article) that&#039;s about $5.50 per day.  So that&#039;s $11.50 per day without factoring parking or general auto maintenance.  IF you find a super cheap lot and pay around $300 per month in parking that&#039;s another .82 cents per day. Bringing the total above $12.00 for a short commute with parking. I can barely afford to pay $4 per day for my metrocard(less cause it&#039;s a 30 day card). Those poor bastards can&#039;t afford to pay another dime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone do the math on the average cost of car ownership in the city.  Parking + Insurance + Car Payments + Gas + Maintenance = ?  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even know HOW to drive so I&#8217;m at a loss, but Imagining that people drive 10-15 Miles to work(I think this is very conservative but lets talk NYC).  That&#8217;s at least a gallon of gas per direction at $3.00 that&#8217;s about $6.00 per day just in fuel costs.  Assuming an annual insurance  cost of $2000(I got this from a money magazine article) that&#8217;s about $5.50 per day.  So that&#8217;s $11.50 per day without factoring parking or general auto maintenance.  IF you find a super cheap lot and pay around $300 per month in parking that&#8217;s another .82 cents per day. Bringing the total above $12.00 for a short commute with parking. I can barely afford to pay $4 per day for my metrocard(less cause it&#8217;s a 30 day card). Those poor bastards can&#8217;t afford to pay another dime.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31114</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31114</guid>
		<description>So let&#039;s do a quick back of the envelope calculation:

Let&#039;s assume 5 million commuters since I don&#039;t have that number in front of me, that would mean that 230,000 (4.6% of the total) NYC residents 

Let&#039;s say NYC residents are half of the cause of congestion and suburbanites are the other half - $6.5 billion a piece.

That means 230,000 are costing the rest of the city $28,260 a year in extra economic costs. If you assume 260 wroking days a year, then the more appropriate cost would be something more like $110/day. $8 seems like a bargain.

If someone has better assumptions to plug into the little model I created, please let me know. 

The appropriate economic calculation should figure out the marginal costs and benefits to society of allowing auto commuters. The marginal costs of a few hundred thousand extra motorists seems fairly high and the marginal benefit seems to only accumulate to their own private comfort and convenience, not the rest of the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let&#8217;s do a quick back of the envelope calculation:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s assume 5 million commuters since I don&#8217;t have that number in front of me, that would mean that 230,000 (4.6% of the total) NYC residents </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say NYC residents are half of the cause of congestion and suburbanites are the other half &#8211; $6.5 billion a piece.</p>
<p>That means 230,000 are costing the rest of the city $28,260 a year in extra economic costs. If you assume 260 wroking days a year, then the more appropriate cost would be something more like $110/day. $8 seems like a bargain.</p>
<p>If someone has better assumptions to plug into the little model I created, please let me know. </p>
<p>The appropriate economic calculation should figure out the marginal costs and benefits to society of allowing auto commuters. The marginal costs of a few hundred thousand extra motorists seems fairly high and the marginal benefit seems to only accumulate to their own private comfort and convenience, not the rest of the public.</p>
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		<title>By: P</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31105</link>
		<dc:creator>P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31105</guid>
		<description>t- Take a look here:
http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/01/12/the-times-is-a-changin/

There might be an phenomenon similar to working people who advocate tax cuts for the rich: one day they&#039;ll take advantage of that unfairness!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>t- Take a look here:<br />
<a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/01/12/the-times-is-a-changin/" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/01/12/the-times-is-a-changin/</a></p>
<p>There might be an phenomenon similar to working people who advocate tax cuts for the rich: one day they&#8217;ll take advantage of that unfairness!</p>
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		<title>By: t</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-31103</link>
		<dc:creator>t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/24/what-13-billion-looks-like/#comment-31103</guid>
		<description>That 4.6% figure is amazing.  So small!  Any idea where most of those working New Yorkers commuting to Manhattan by car are commuting from?  That&#039;s the kind of figure that would shoot down a lot of the politicians who claim that their constituents are overwhelmingly against congestion pricing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That 4.6% figure is amazing.  So small!  Any idea where most of those working New Yorkers commuting to Manhattan by car are commuting from?  That&#8217;s the kind of figure that would shoot down a lot of the politicians who claim that their constituents are overwhelmingly against congestion pricing.</p>
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