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	<title>Comments on: SoHo Car Owners Mobilizing to Save Parking, Fight Bike Lanes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-31016</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-31016</guid>
		<description>Or, instead of a physically separated lane on Houston St. (or up/down avenues), how about a center lane for emergency vehicles and bikes/human powered vehicles only, that cars can cross, but not stay in, as I&#039;ve suggested many times?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, instead of a physically separated lane on Houston St. (or up/down avenues), how about a center lane for emergency vehicles and bikes/human powered vehicles only, that cars can cross, but not stay in, as I've suggested many times?</p>
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		<title>By: Not Insane</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-31009</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Insane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-31009</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Bike lane on Prince St not Houston?
&lt;b&gt;Are these people crazy?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;
The speed of the bikes is closer to cars than people.
Prince St is a pedestrian nightmare, narrow, filled with the hawkers + the tourists + the bobo shoppers + the regular live/work people, who are already walking in the street already just to get somewhere.
Why would they want to add speeding cyclists?
WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Bike lane on Prince St not Houston?<br />
<b>Are these people crazy?</b></i><br />
The speed of the bikes is closer to cars than people.<br />
Prince St is a pedestrian nightmare, narrow, filled with the hawkers + the tourists + the bobo shoppers + the regular live/work people, who are already walking in the street already just to get somewhere.<br />
Why would they want to add speeding cyclists?<br />
WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: Anarcissie</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-31008</link>
		<dc:creator>Anarcissie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-31008</guid>
		<description>I agree with Stacy.  Mere painted bike lanes are vacuous decor -- motorists constantly use them for parking, standing and driving.  Often, the motorists are driving city vehicles.  Check out Lafayette Street, 2nd Avenue, Grand Street, 8th  Avenue and so on.  A physically separated lane on Houston Street would be worth something; some stripes on Prince Street are worth nothing, except to the city&#039;s machinery for issuing parking tickets to raise revenues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Stacy.  Mere painted bike lanes are vacuous decor -- motorists constantly use them for parking, standing and driving.  Often, the motorists are driving city vehicles.  Check out Lafayette Street, 2nd Avenue, Grand Street, 8th  Avenue and so on.  A physically separated lane on Houston Street would be worth something; some stripes on Prince Street are worth nothing, except to the city's machinery for issuing parking tickets to raise revenues.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-31004</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-31004</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s the point? Coraling cyclists on Prince and Bleecker Streets isn&#039;t going to make Houston Street any safer 

And who&#039;s going to keep these trucks and tour busses and drunk tourists out of these bike lanes? Sounds like a big waste of time and paint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What's the point? Coraling cyclists on Prince and Bleecker Streets isn't going to make Houston Street any safer </p>
<p>And who's going to keep these trucks and tour busses and drunk tourists out of these bike lanes? Sounds like a big waste of time and paint.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Naparstek</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30933</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Naparstek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30933</guid>
		<description>OK, kids, Let&#039;s not get in fights in the comments section.

I maintain that pedestrians and cyclists have been squeezed into the margins of public space by motor vehicles and that we are really on the same team.

But because bikes and peds aren&#039;t wrapped up in three tons of steel, we tend to get in fights with each other more than the guys who are actually doing all of the hogging of public space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, kids, Let's not get in fights in the comments section.</p>
<p>I maintain that pedestrians and cyclists have been squeezed into the margins of public space by motor vehicles and that we are really on the same team.</p>
<p>But because bikes and peds aren't wrapped up in three tons of steel, we tend to get in fights with each other more than the guys who are actually doing all of the hogging of public space.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30932</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30932</guid>
		<description>epc,

All of that has been demonstrated repeatedly in studies and in practice. Somewhere on this blog I know that you can find a Bruce Shaller study showing how very few people shopping on Prince Street arrived by car. 

Unless you are Mayor Bloomberg, bike advocates don&#039;t really need to justify to you how much more efficient and socially beneficial a bikeable, walkable less traffic-filled city is. It&#039;s not worth the energy. Rather, we just need political will to make these changes over irrational objections. We can either choose to make the changes now or we can wait until high gas prices, climate change or a failing, congested,  degraded city force us to make the changes. I&#039;d rather start now. We&#039;re already decades behind other big cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>epc,</p>
<p>All of that has been demonstrated repeatedly in studies and in practice. Somewhere on this blog I know that you can find a Bruce Shaller study showing how very few people shopping on Prince Street arrived by car. </p>
<p>Unless you are Mayor Bloomberg, bike advocates don't really need to justify to you how much more efficient and socially beneficial a bikeable, walkable less traffic-filled city is. It's not worth the energy. Rather, we just need political will to make these changes over irrational objections. We can either choose to make the changes now or we can wait until high gas prices, climate change or a failing, congested,  degraded city force us to make the changes. I'd rather start now. We're already decades behind other big cities.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30931</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30931</guid>
		<description>epc,

I guess what I&#039;m saying is, first, I don&#039;t believe your story. Second, if this same type of thing keeps happening in the same spots in the same way then that might indicate a problem with street design more than anything else. Perhaps we need a reverse flow bike lane on Henry Street. Finally, I ask you: In the same time period that all of these awful cyclists picked on you, how many times were you honked at aggressively, intimidated in crosswalks, spewed upon by diesel exhaust, jolted by car alarms, jostled by pedestrians on overly crowded sidewalks, or treated rudely on the subway? Are you counting those stats too? Or just watching for naughty bikers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>epc,</p>
<p>I guess what I'm saying is, first, I don't believe your story. Second, if this same type of thing keeps happening in the same spots in the same way then that might indicate a problem with street design more than anything else. Perhaps we need a reverse flow bike lane on Henry Street. Finally, I ask you: In the same time period that all of these awful cyclists picked on you, how many times were you honked at aggressively, intimidated in crosswalks, spewed upon by diesel exhaust, jolted by car alarms, jostled by pedestrians on overly crowded sidewalks, or treated rudely on the subway? Are you counting those stats too? Or just watching for naughty bikers?</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30930</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30930</guid>
		<description>I thought about this more overnight, and Franklin&#039;s comment illustrates why cyclists have poor support from the rest of the community.  If you respond to criticism with ad hominem attacks against the critics, and ignore the criticism, you&#039;ll lose each of these battles.

You want the Prince Street bike lanes?  Demonstrate that removing parking and increasing the &quot;throughput&quot; of Prince will increase business, and yet be safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and even drivers.  Demonstrate that deliveries will occur faster (I&#039;m assuming that there&#039;d be 2 traffic lanes + the bike lane, or 1.5 traffic lanes).  Taxis (yes, ugh, taxis) will be able to pick up and drop off people more easily.  

The perception of the bike lanes on Prince is that it&#039;s a net takeaway for the community, show that it isn&#039;t and that it would be a net benefit.

The business community is slowly coming to the realization that traffic is actually bad for business, use this to get business on your side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought about this more overnight, and Franklin's comment illustrates why cyclists have poor support from the rest of the community.  If you respond to criticism with ad hominem attacks against the critics, and ignore the criticism, you'll lose each of these battles.</p>
<p>You want the Prince Street bike lanes?  Demonstrate that removing parking and increasing the "throughput" of Prince will increase business, and yet be safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and even drivers.  Demonstrate that deliveries will occur faster (I'm assuming that there'd be 2 traffic lanes + the bike lane, or 1.5 traffic lanes).  Taxis (yes, ugh, taxis) will be able to pick up and drop off people more easily.  </p>
<p>The perception of the bike lanes on Prince is that it's a net takeaway for the community, show that it isn't and that it would be a net benefit.</p>
<p>The business community is slowly coming to the realization that traffic is actually bad for business, use this to get business on your side.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30928</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30928</guid>
		<description>Franklin:

don&#039;t be ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Franklin:</p>
<p>don't be ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30927</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30927</guid>
		<description>Franklin: nice retort, really, because it&#039;s up to the pedestrian to know that a cyclist is allow to ride the wrong way, run the light, and hit me; definitely something wrong inside there.

If I walk against the light, in front of a bike, riding the right way down the street, then sure, clip me, turn around and curse me out; but if I&#039;m in the crosswalk, and you&#039;re running the light, the WRONG way, and you hit me, don&#039;t expect me to get up and be all thankful that at least it wasn&#039;t a car.

There are more pedestrians than cyclists and drivers combined, you can either get us on the side of cyclists, or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Franklin: nice retort, really, because it's up to the pedestrian to know that a cyclist is allow to ride the wrong way, run the light, and hit me; definitely something wrong inside there.</p>
<p>If I walk against the light, in front of a bike, riding the right way down the street, then sure, clip me, turn around and curse me out; but if I'm in the crosswalk, and you're running the light, the WRONG way, and you hit me, don't expect me to get up and be all thankful that at least it wasn't a car.</p>
<p>There are more pedestrians than cyclists and drivers combined, you can either get us on the side of cyclists, or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30925</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30925</guid>
		<description>Let me get this straight.  The Soho Alliance supported bike lanes on Houston and still wants them there and favors traffic calming measures there.

The Prince/Bleecker bike lanes would not calm traffic, and might even speed it up, because they would replace on-street parking.  They would also not make the streets significantly safer or easier for cyclists.

160 parking spaces is minimal, but the drivers would probably park illegally in the bike lanes anyway, especially if they have permits.

And for all this you and the Alliance are willing to let the DOT divide and conquer you?  What&#039;s the benefit?  Is it worth fighting over?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me get this straight.  The Soho Alliance supported bike lanes on Houston and still wants them there and favors traffic calming measures there.</p>
<p>The Prince/Bleecker bike lanes would not calm traffic, and might even speed it up, because they would replace on-street parking.  They would also not make the streets significantly safer or easier for cyclists.</p>
<p>160 parking spaces is minimal, but the drivers would probably park illegally in the bike lanes anyway, especially if they have permits.</p>
<p>And for all this you and the Alliance are willing to let the DOT divide and conquer you?  What's the benefit?  Is it worth fighting over?</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30924</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30924</guid>
		<description>Accidents are learning experiences, epc. If you&#039;d have been clipped by cars three times since January you&#039;d probably be dead. 

It&#039;s a big crowded city. We bump up against each other. I&#039;d rather bump into street users that won&#039;t kill me. Give me a bike clipping any day of the week. 

P.S. 

If this has happened three times and you got yelled at each time, maybe it&#039;s something you are doing? Time to look inside?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accidents are learning experiences, epc. If you'd have been clipped by cars three times since January you'd probably be dead. </p>
<p>It's a big crowded city. We bump up against each other. I'd rather bump into street users that won't kill me. Give me a bike clipping any day of the week. </p>
<p>P.S. </p>
<p>If this has happened three times and you got yelled at each time, maybe it's something you are doing? Time to look inside?</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30923</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30923</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been clipped by three cyclists since January while crossing a street with the light.  Two were riding the wrong way down the bike lane on Henry Street (Brooklyn), the other was riding the &quot;right&quot; way down the Clinton bike lane but blew through the light.

None of the three were messenger/delivery guys.

All three cyclists took the time to stop and scream at me for crossing the street (in the crosswalk, with the light) and then took off.

Sure, autos and trucks do the same thing, can cause more damage, but they&#039;re the incumbents, they have the power and the support.  When I got clipped by a taxi a witness and I were able to get the TLC number.  

Cyclists aren&#039;t going to win fans or support by hitting or clipping pedestrians and treating them with disdain and contempt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've been clipped by three cyclists since January while crossing a street with the light.  Two were riding the wrong way down the bike lane on Henry Street (Brooklyn), the other was riding the "right" way down the Clinton bike lane but blew through the light.</p>
<p>None of the three were messenger/delivery guys.</p>
<p>All three cyclists took the time to stop and scream at me for crossing the street (in the crosswalk, with the light) and then took off.</p>
<p>Sure, autos and trucks do the same thing, can cause more damage, but they're the incumbents, they have the power and the support.  When I got clipped by a taxi a witness and I were able to get the TLC number.  </p>
<p>Cyclists aren't going to win fans or support by hitting or clipping pedestrians and treating them with disdain and contempt.</p>
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		<title>By: Efficiency Nut</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30917</link>
		<dc:creator>Efficiency Nut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30917</guid>
		<description>The SB irony meter just broke. 
Can you all tone it down a bit.

Of course, I seem to be pushing the irrelevant comment meter into the red now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SB irony meter just broke.<br />
Can you all tone it down a bit.</p>
<p>Of course, I seem to be pushing the irrelevant comment meter into the red now.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30906</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30906</guid>
		<description>I always make sure to hit witting tourists and residents.  What fun is it if they don&#039;t see me?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always make sure to hit witting tourists and residents.  What fun is it if they don't see me?!</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30905</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30905</guid>
		<description>Cars NEVER speed down busy Prince, run red lights, or hit unwitting tourists and residents.

Therefore, we should not do anything that might slow cars down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cars NEVER speed down busy Prince, run red lights, or hit unwitting tourists and residents.</p>
<p>Therefore, we should not do anything that might slow cars down.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30902</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30902</guid>
		<description>I just did an unscientific push poll with my cats that found they wholeheartedly support the new bike lanes.  That is 100% approval.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just did an unscientific push poll with my cats that found they wholeheartedly support the new bike lanes.  That is 100% approval.</p>
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		<title>By: Super G</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30901</link>
		<dc:creator>Super G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30901</guid>
		<description>Also, given that Mr. Sweeney supports a bike lane on Houston Street, I find his claim that a bike lane on Prince Street would be magnet for &quot;reckless cyclists&quot; disingenuous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, given that Mr. Sweeney supports a bike lane on Houston Street, I find his claim that a bike lane on Prince Street would be magnet for "reckless cyclists" disingenuous.</p>
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		<title>By: Super G</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/comment-page-1/#comment-30899</link>
		<dc:creator>Super G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/18/free-parking-advocates-mobilizing-against-new-bike-lanes-in-soho/#comment-30899</guid>
		<description>In case you&#039;re wondering, Mr. Sweeney&#039;s &quot;survey&quot; was an unscientific push poll that he personally conducted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you're wondering, Mr. Sweeney's "survey" was an unscientific push poll that he personally conducted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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