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	<title>Comments on: City Pitches in for Yankee Stadium Parking</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30694</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30694</guid>
		<description>It is unfortunate, but remember it was Bronx politicians who insisted the Yankees not leave, not matter what it cost the city.

As to how things could be improved, one option could be &quot;point to point&quot; bus runs for special events and desitnations at non-central destinations, with pick-ups and drop offs at several neighborhood points.  Kind of like the Atlantic City buses do.

But federal policy -- a ban on using transit buses for charter service backed by the charter companies -- gets in the way.  The TWU blocks private vans and private bus companies prevent transit riders from using buses paid for with their own tax dollars.  In government producers, not consumers, rule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unfortunate, but remember it was Bronx politicians who insisted the Yankees not leave, not matter what it cost the city.</p>
<p>As to how things could be improved, one option could be "point to point" bus runs for special events and desitnations at non-central destinations, with pick-ups and drop offs at several neighborhood points.  Kind of like the Atlantic City buses do.</p>
<p>But federal policy -- a ban on using transit buses for charter service backed by the charter companies -- gets in the way.  The TWU blocks private vans and private bus companies prevent transit riders from using buses paid for with their own tax dollars.  In government producers, not consumers, rule.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Vance</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30685</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30685</guid>
		<description>This is so unfortunate. All that money spent on a new stadium. These stadiums are always built in the poor neighborhoods and never bring about any kind of revitalization to them.

Chicago&#039;s Soldier Field renovation cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but at least all of our stadiums have excellent transit connections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so unfortunate. All that money spent on a new stadium. These stadiums are always built in the poor neighborhoods and never bring about any kind of revitalization to them.</p>
<p>Chicago's Soldier Field renovation cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but at least all of our stadiums have excellent transit connections.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30680</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30680</guid>
		<description>When I was at DCP we had some airy discussions of using the SAS as a trunk line for something like the RER, with a premium fare as a way of financing it.

But you really can&#039;t compare NYC with Paris.  Paris is the place the rest of France dumps money into; NYC is the place the rest of the U.S. sucks money out of.  It took 12 years of study to get a 30% federal contribution to an overpriced three-stop extenstion of the BMT Broadway line, probably not even paying for the cost escalation during that time.  And after 2015 or so, ever last dime will be doing to the seniors.  We&#039;ll be lucky to keep what we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was at DCP we had some airy discussions of using the SAS as a trunk line for something like the RER, with a premium fare as a way of financing it.</p>
<p>But you really can't compare NYC with Paris.  Paris is the place the rest of France dumps money into; NYC is the place the rest of the U.S. sucks money out of.  It took 12 years of study to get a 30% federal contribution to an overpriced three-stop extenstion of the BMT Broadway line, probably not even paying for the cost escalation during that time.  And after 2015 or so, ever last dime will be doing to the seniors.  We'll be lucky to keep what we have.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30678</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30678</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve put your finger on the problem, Larry, but I think Doc&#039;s point is excellent.  The Stade de France is served by the RER B line running straight from Paris and the southern suburbs, and the RER D running to the southeastern suburbs.  It&#039;s two stops and ten minutes from Notre Dame Cathedral, including time for a change of train operators because it runs on lines controlled by two different authorities.  Many of the eastern suburbs are accessible by a single cross-platform transfer, and at least half the commuter lines are accessible by a single transfer.

To transplant this to New York City, imagine that Yankee Stadium is between the Harlem and Hudson lines, with stations for both close by.  But instead of terminating at Grand Central, they stop at a station below the existing Lower Level.  The Hudson Line trains continue on to a station under Penn Station and down the Raritan Valley Line to the end, while the Harlem Line trains make a stop at 14th and Seventh before crossing under the river to Hoboken Terminal and going up the Erie Main Line to Ridgewood.  Naturally, connections are available at Grand Central, Hoboken, Secaucus and Ridgewood for other trains.

This wasn&#039;t an easy thing to accomplish.  Between 1969 and 1977, large tunnels were dug under the center of the city, linking four different commuter rail stations, and a huge pit (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.navily.net/ligne4.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see the last picture&lt;/a&gt;) was dug on the former site of the central market for the transfer station.  This required a large expenditure of public money.

What were we spending money on between 1969 and 1977?  Oh yeah, things like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nycroads.com/roads/west-shore/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nycroads.com/roads/I-78_NJ/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nycroads.com/roads/I-684_NY/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You've put your finger on the problem, Larry, but I think Doc's point is excellent.  The Stade de France is served by the RER B line running straight from Paris and the southern suburbs, and the RER D running to the southeastern suburbs.  It's two stops and ten minutes from Notre Dame Cathedral, including time for a change of train operators because it runs on lines controlled by two different authorities.  Many of the eastern suburbs are accessible by a single cross-platform transfer, and at least half the commuter lines are accessible by a single transfer.</p>
<p>To transplant this to New York City, imagine that Yankee Stadium is between the Harlem and Hudson lines, with stations for both close by.  But instead of terminating at Grand Central, they stop at a station below the existing Lower Level.  The Hudson Line trains continue on to a station under Penn Station and down the Raritan Valley Line to the end, while the Harlem Line trains make a stop at 14th and Seventh before crossing under the river to Hoboken Terminal and going up the Erie Main Line to Ridgewood.  Naturally, connections are available at Grand Central, Hoboken, Secaucus and Ridgewood for other trains.</p>
<p>This wasn't an easy thing to accomplish.  Between 1969 and 1977, large tunnels were dug under the center of the city, linking four different commuter rail stations, and a huge pit (<a href="http://www.navily.net/ligne4.php" rel="nofollow">see the last picture</a>) was dug on the former site of the central market for the transfer station.  This required a large expenditure of public money.</p>
<p>What were we spending money on between 1969 and 1977?  Oh yeah, things like <a href="http://www.nycroads.com/roads/west-shore/" rel="nofollow">this</a>, <a href="http://www.nycroads.com/roads/I-78_NJ/" rel="nofollow">this</a> and <a href="http://www.nycroads.com/roads/I-684_NY/" rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30669</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30669</guid>
		<description>And I hate to bring &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; up (I do!) but other cities have managed to keep enormous sports arenas outside their dense centers while providing good transit options from the suburbs as well as the center. Like the Stade de France, whose &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stadefrance.fr/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=112&amp;Itemid=297&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;access instructions&lt;/a&gt; begin cutely, &quot;Make your choice! Give preference to public transport!&quot;

It&#039;s not a dilemma when good options are available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I hate to bring <i>this</i> up (I do!) but other cities have managed to keep enormous sports arenas outside their dense centers while providing good transit options from the suburbs as well as the center. Like the Stade de France, whose <a href="http://www.stadefrance.fr/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=112&amp;Itemid=297" rel="nofollow">access instructions</a> begin cutely, "Make your choice! Give preference to public transport!"</p>
<p>It's not a dilemma when good options are available.</p>
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		<title>By: Orcutt</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30648</link>
		<dc:creator>Orcutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30648</guid>
		<description>I think all you can do is flog the sustainability rhetoric vs car planning reality, and hope the new garages don&#039;t work even with the added subsidies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all you can do is flog the sustainability rhetoric vs car planning reality, and hope the new garages don't work even with the added subsidies.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30646</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30646</guid>
		<description>Hate to bring this up, but if the city wanted people to take transit to baseball games, it should have put a single stadium for both teams in a central location -- like the West Side yards, or Sunnyside Yards.

A large share of Yankee fans are in New Jersey, and a transit ride home from the stadium after a late night game is, to say the least, unpleasant and long.  It&#039;s tough getting up for work or school after arriving home at 2 am, and God Forbid you miss the last train from Penn or bus from the Port Authority Bus Terminal.

True, we take transit to Shea, but it is at least 1 1/2 hours each way from a fairly close in part of Brooklyn.  We only go once a year, to a day game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to bring this up, but if the city wanted people to take transit to baseball games, it should have put a single stadium for both teams in a central location -- like the West Side yards, or Sunnyside Yards.</p>
<p>A large share of Yankee fans are in New Jersey, and a transit ride home from the stadium after a late night game is, to say the least, unpleasant and long.  It's tough getting up for work or school after arriving home at 2 am, and God Forbid you miss the last train from Penn or bus from the Port Authority Bus Terminal.</p>
<p>True, we take transit to Shea, but it is at least 1 1/2 hours each way from a fairly close in part of Brooklyn.  We only go once a year, to a day game.</p>
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		<title>By: BorschtBelt</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30640</link>
		<dc:creator>BorschtBelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30640</guid>
		<description>Freaking pathetic.  Get these sports team tycoons off of the public teat once and for all - they just keep coming back for more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freaking pathetic.  Get these sports team tycoons off of the public teat once and for all - they just keep coming back for more.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30633</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30633</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jon.  What a mess.  I guess there&#039;s no real point writing to Bloomberg about this, is there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jon.  What a mess.  I guess there's no real point writing to Bloomberg about this, is there?</p>
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		<title>By: Orcutt</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30631</link>
		<dc:creator>Orcutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30631</guid>
		<description>This issuance of tax exampt bonds is a NYC EDC initiative, not NY State ESDC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This issuance of tax exampt bonds is a NYC EDC initiative, not NY State ESDC.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30625</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30625</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s very funny, Sustain me!  Or it would be if it weren&#039;t so close to the truth.

I &lt;a href=&quot;http://161.11.121.121/govemail&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;emailed Governor Spitzer&lt;/a&gt;, who controls the EDC and thus the IDA.  Hopefully he can stop this thing before it&#039;s too late.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/Yanks_garages_in_park/7793.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This Metro article&lt;/a&gt; was informative, in an infuriating kind of way, especially this quote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œWeâ€™re the 501(c)(3) corporation, which is the pass-through to give the parking garages tax-exempt financing,â€ explained CIDC senior vice president Joseph Seymour, the former executive director of the Port Authority. â€œInstead of the city taking on the debt, and having that put under consolidated debt, it goes through Community Initiatives Development Corp.â€

...

â€œWeâ€™re only providing the tax-exempt status,â€ said Seymour. â€œWe get a fee, which hasnâ€™t been negotiated yet. We donâ€™t get the revenue â€” thereâ€™s a trustee that gets the revenue and disburses it to the bondholders and pays off the development.â€&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nice.  So even though there are laws requiring for-profit companies to pay taxes and preventing the state from lending them money tax-free, our friend Seymour set up this little shell nonprofit to circumvent those laws ... for a fee, of course.  With this kind of &quot;good government,&quot; why did the Times endorse Pataki three times?  Why would anyone even think twice about voting for him for President?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's very funny, Sustain me!  Or it would be if it weren't so close to the truth.</p>
<p>I <a href="http://161.11.121.121/govemail" rel="nofollow">emailed Governor Spitzer</a>, who controls the EDC and thus the IDA.  Hopefully he can stop this thing before it's too late.</p>
<p><a href="http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/Yanks_garages_in_park/7793.html" rel="nofollow">This Metro article</a> was informative, in an infuriating kind of way, especially this quote:</p>
<blockquote><p>â€œWeâ€™re the 501(c)(3) corporation, which is the pass-through to give the parking garages tax-exempt financing,â€ explained CIDC senior vice president Joseph Seymour, the former executive director of the Port Authority. â€œInstead of the city taking on the debt, and having that put under consolidated debt, it goes through Community Initiatives Development Corp.â€</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>â€œWeâ€™re only providing the tax-exempt status,â€ said Seymour. â€œWe get a fee, which hasnâ€™t been negotiated yet. We donâ€™t get the revenue â€” thereâ€™s a trustee that gets the revenue and disburses it to the bondholders and pays off the development.â€</p></blockquote>
<p>Nice.  So even though there are laws requiring for-profit companies to pay taxes and preventing the state from lending them money tax-free, our friend Seymour set up this little shell nonprofit to circumvent those laws ... for a fee, of course.  With this kind of "good government," why did the Times endorse Pataki three times?  Why would anyone even think twice about voting for him for President?</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30622</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30622</guid>
		<description>Nice, but no one wants to &quot;offset the the impact&quot; or anything lame like that. We&#039;ll settle for not funding unprofitable garages through tax exemptions, and having them not be built. Hate to put out your Swedish artist friends tho! xo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice, but no one wants to "offset the the impact" or anything lame like that. We'll settle for not funding unprofitable garages through tax exemptions, and having them not be built. Hate to put out your Swedish artist friends tho! xo</p>
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		<title>By: sustain me</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30616</link>
		<dc:creator>sustain me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30616</guid>
		<description>Maybe the 9000 car parking structures will have a green roof and solar panels to power the energy efficient light bulbs. Nests will be built on the sides for rare migratory birds and the elevators will be designed by ambidextrous Swedish artists and made of recycled coconut husks and old hot dog wrappers. 

In front will be high concept bike racks that look like bent baseball bats and have room for 9 bikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the 9000 car parking structures will have a green roof and solar panels to power the energy efficient light bulbs. Nests will be built on the sides for rare migratory birds and the elevators will be designed by ambidextrous Swedish artists and made of recycled coconut husks and old hot dog wrappers. </p>
<p>In front will be high concept bike racks that look like bent baseball bats and have room for 9 bikes.</p>
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		<title>By: rlb</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30615</link>
		<dc:creator>rlb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30615</guid>
		<description>...I saw somewhere that there are plans for 9000 spaces, so:

If each car averages a 10 mile trip at 20mpg, that&#039;s one gallon roundtrip, 9000 for the whole lot, and times 81 for the season (not counting playoffs), that&#039;s 729000 gallons a year. Every burned gallon of gas puts out about 20lbs of CO2, so that&#039;s 14,580,000lbs or 7,290 tons a year. 
Seems like the kind of thing PlaNYC should be trying to avoid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>...I saw somewhere that there are plans for 9000 spaces, so:</p>
<p>If each car averages a 10 mile trip at 20mpg, that's one gallon roundtrip, 9000 for the whole lot, and times 81 for the season (not counting playoffs), that's 729000 gallons a year. Every burned gallon of gas puts out about 20lbs of CO2, so that's 14,580,000lbs or 7,290 tons a year.<br />
Seems like the kind of thing PlaNYC should be trying to avoid.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Siegel</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30613</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30613</guid>
		<description>We need someone to calculate the greenhouse-gas impact of projects like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need someone to calculate the greenhouse-gas impact of projects like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Naparstek</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/comment-page-1/#comment-30612</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Naparstek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/09/city-steps-up-for-stadium-parking/#comment-30612</guid>
		<description>Yet another reason to be a Mets fan, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another reason to be a Mets fan, I suppose.</p>
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