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	<title>Comments on: Auto Worship Still a Sign of the Times</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30546</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30546</guid>
		<description>And as far as &quot;escaping&quot; goes (and the inevitable returning), the writer acts like he&#039;s never sat on the FDR for two hours of a wasted Friday afternoon. You&#039;re far better off taking a commuter train in the direction you want to go and renting a car from some remote stop.

Finding rentals that are within a mile of a train station is a pretty advanced logistical exercise, especially when they&#039;re mostly closed on Sundays (don&#039;t rental franchises see the potential?), but it&#039;s been worth it to me to save time, money, and stress on that &quot;escape.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as far as &#8220;escaping&#8221; goes (and the inevitable returning), the writer acts like he&#8217;s never sat on the FDR for two hours of a wasted Friday afternoon. You&#8217;re far better off taking a commuter train in the direction you want to go and renting a car from some remote stop.</p>
<p>Finding rentals that are within a mile of a train station is a pretty advanced logistical exercise, especially when they&#8217;re mostly closed on Sundays (don&#8217;t rental franchises see the potential?), but it&#8217;s been worth it to me to save time, money, and stress on that &#8220;escape.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30545</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30545</guid>
		<description>Sorry, the trail guide is actually &lt;i&gt;Day Walker&lt;/i&gt;.  Here it is on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=1504343&amp;wtit=day%20walker&amp;matches=5&amp;qsort=r&amp;cm_re=works*listing*title&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alibris&lt;a&gt;.

Incidentally, I&#039;d love to see a nationwide car-free travel guide.  There are plenty of places where you don&#039;t need a car, but information is scarce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, the trail guide is actually <i>Day Walker</i>.  Here it is on <a href="http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=1504343&amp;wtit=day%20walker&amp;matches=5&amp;qsort=r&amp;cm_re=works*listing*title" rel="nofollow">Alibris</a><a>.</a></p>
<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;d love to see a nationwide car-free travel guide.  There are plenty of places where you don&#8217;t need a car, but information is scarce.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30543</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30543</guid>
		<description>Not quite true, Gizler.  There are some getaways that are almost undoable without a car, and that&#039;s what car rentals and Zipcar are for.

However, there are a lot of places you can get to and enjoy by public transportation.  My family and I have had many fun weekends away without a car in places like Ocean Grove NJ, Saratoga Springs NY, and Norwalk, CT.  I&#039;ve found these two books to be very helpful:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Weekends-Daytrips-Overnight-Getaways/dp/0789308584&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Heavenly Weekends: Travel Without A Car&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nynjtc.org/pubs/books/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Day Hiker (the seventh book on the page)&lt;/a&gt;

Amazon is also showing that Frommer&#039;s has released a competitor to &lt;i&gt;Heavenly Weekends&lt;/i&gt; called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Escapes-Without-Wonderful-Weekends/dp/0764598295/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-0445304-7732730&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Great Escapes From NYC Without Wheels&lt;/a&gt;.  Has anyone seen it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite true, Gizler.  There are some getaways that are almost undoable without a car, and that&#8217;s what car rentals and Zipcar are for.</p>
<p>However, there are a lot of places you can get to and enjoy by public transportation.  My family and I have had many fun weekends away without a car in places like Ocean Grove NJ, Saratoga Springs NY, and Norwalk, CT.  I&#8217;ve found these two books to be very helpful:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Weekends-Daytrips-Overnight-Getaways/dp/0789308584" rel="nofollow">Heavenly Weekends: Travel Without A Car</a><br />
<a href="http://www.nynjtc.org/pubs/books/" rel="nofollow">Day Hiker (the seventh book on the page)</a></p>
<p>Amazon is also showing that Frommer&#8217;s has released a competitor to <i>Heavenly Weekends</i> called <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Escapes-Without-Wonderful-Weekends/dp/0764598295/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-0445304-7732730" rel="nofollow">Great Escapes From NYC Without Wheels</a>.  Has anyone seen it?</p>
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		<title>By: Gizler</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30541</link>
		<dc:creator>Gizler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30541</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have a car, but as far as cars offering &quot;the freedom to escape the city on a whim&quot; - I will concede that this is true and unfortunately at this point there are few alternatives. You can take the train somewhere, but what do you do when you arrive? Unless you go to Philly or Boston, you&#039;re stranded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a car, but as far as cars offering &#8220;the freedom to escape the city on a whim&#8221; &#8211; I will concede that this is true and unfortunately at this point there are few alternatives. You can take the train somewhere, but what do you do when you arrive? Unless you go to Philly or Boston, you&#8217;re stranded.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30528</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30528</guid>
		<description>Not a Driver,

What you&#039;ll find as soon as you leave the cocoon of Manhattan&#039;s political/media/corporate elite is that, in fact, New York City is no longer being taken seriously by leading policy makers in other world cities when it comes to issues of climate change, transportation policy, urban environmentalism and smart growth. 

Mayor Bloomberg (and, yes, the NY Times) have been extraordinarily slow to wake up to these issues. It will likely be seen as the major failing of his otherwise stellar mayoralty and the enormous missed opportunity of the early-2000&#039;s development boom. NYC has fallen way behind its global competitors and, as the countdown clock in the Mayor&#039;s bullpen shows, we are now racing to catch up.  

Question for you: With the exception of the horrible evils of foie gras, do you really see promoting NYC restaurants is the same as promoting SUV&#039;s on NYC streets? 

The Times doesn&#039;t advertise cigarettes anymore and here&#039;s some news for you: Cars are the new cigarettes. &quot;Serious&quot; media outlets will come around to this position soon enough. Til then, I hope Streetsblog and other less &quot;serious&quot; outlets will continue to be &quot;over the top.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a Driver,</p>
<p>What you&#8217;ll find as soon as you leave the cocoon of Manhattan&#8217;s political/media/corporate elite is that, in fact, New York City is no longer being taken seriously by leading policy makers in other world cities when it comes to issues of climate change, transportation policy, urban environmentalism and smart growth. </p>
<p>Mayor Bloomberg (and, yes, the NY Times) have been extraordinarily slow to wake up to these issues. It will likely be seen as the major failing of his otherwise stellar mayoralty and the enormous missed opportunity of the early-2000&#8242;s development boom. NYC has fallen way behind its global competitors and, as the countdown clock in the Mayor&#8217;s bullpen shows, we are now racing to catch up.  </p>
<p>Question for you: With the exception of the horrible evils of foie gras, do you really see promoting NYC restaurants is the same as promoting SUV&#8217;s on NYC streets? </p>
<p>The Times doesn&#8217;t advertise cigarettes anymore and here&#8217;s some news for you: Cars are the new cigarettes. &#8220;Serious&#8221; media outlets will come around to this position soon enough. Til then, I hope Streetsblog and other less &#8220;serious&#8221; outlets will continue to be &#8220;over the top.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30513</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 03:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30513</guid>
		<description>Nimby, the news/opinion split is generally a good idea, but any news outlet also needs a split between news and advertising to have any semblance of objectivity.  The Times generally seems to do this in their &quot;hard&quot; news, but I&#039;m not sure that the features sections fare as well.  The restaurant and arts reviewers have been known to pan a given restaurant or performance, but have they ever said something like, &quot;Honestly, the current [folk dance scene/summer pants line/college basketball tournament] is morally bankrupt and threatens our society, so you should just stay away&quot;?

It&#039;s one thing to say that car trends and maybe even the Auto Shows are worth reporting on, but they definitely aren&#039;t newsworthy enought to merit a special section and full-time bloggers.  That&#039;s clearly the influence of advertisers.

Another point that&#039;s been made in the past is that the Times has a large readership of wealthy suburbanites who may take Metro-North to work, but will drive their Lexuses to the Danbury Mall on the weekends.  I think the auto coverage caters to these people more than to the Upper East Side alternate-side calendar-checkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nimby, the news/opinion split is generally a good idea, but any news outlet also needs a split between news and advertising to have any semblance of objectivity.  The Times generally seems to do this in their &#8220;hard&#8221; news, but I&#8217;m not sure that the features sections fare as well.  The restaurant and arts reviewers have been known to pan a given restaurant or performance, but have they ever said something like, &#8220;Honestly, the current [folk dance scene/summer pants line/college basketball tournament] is morally bankrupt and threatens our society, so you should just stay away&#8221;?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to say that car trends and maybe even the Auto Shows are worth reporting on, but they definitely aren&#8217;t newsworthy enought to merit a special section and full-time bloggers.  That&#8217;s clearly the influence of advertisers.</p>
<p>Another point that&#8217;s been made in the past is that the Times has a large readership of wealthy suburbanites who may take Metro-North to work, but will drive their Lexuses to the Danbury Mall on the weekends.  I think the auto coverage caters to these people more than to the Upper East Side alternate-side calendar-checkers.</p>
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		<title>By: nimby pimby</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30509</link>
		<dc:creator>nimby pimby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30509</guid>
		<description>Brad: Why is it perplexing that the Times auto section is different from the editorial section?  As you&#039;ve worked at several newspapers, you should know that a rule most follow to maintain at least a sheen of objectivity is keeping the news and opinion editors and writers completely separated.  You seem to want Arthur Sulzberger to exercise Rupert Murdoch/New York Post-like control of the paper.  I&#039;d take the NYT and its auto section over the Post any day.

Also, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s fair to abhor the entire auto section and coverage of the auto show.  Even as someone who doesn&#039;t own or want a car and would like to see fewer people drive, cars are a newsworthy topic.  Not only do a lot of people still drive, but the auto industry is still a very important part of most industrialized economies, and cars are interesting from aesthetic, engineering, technological and scientific points of view as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad: Why is it perplexing that the Times auto section is different from the editorial section?  As you&#8217;ve worked at several newspapers, you should know that a rule most follow to maintain at least a sheen of objectivity is keeping the news and opinion editors and writers completely separated.  You seem to want Arthur Sulzberger to exercise Rupert Murdoch/New York Post-like control of the paper.  I&#8217;d take the NYT and its auto section over the Post any day.</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair to abhor the entire auto section and coverage of the auto show.  Even as someone who doesn&#8217;t own or want a car and would like to see fewer people drive, cars are a newsworthy topic.  Not only do a lot of people still drive, but the auto industry is still a very important part of most industrialized economies, and cars are interesting from aesthetic, engineering, technological and scientific points of view as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30508</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30508</guid>
		<description>Damian: No, I&#039;m not really perplexed. I&#039;ve worked for several newspapers, and founded one of my own, so I&#039;m well aware of the realities of ad dependence. Still, I have never filed a story about how great cigarettes are, etc., and every decent editor or publisher I&#039;ve ever known chafed at the notion of mixing sales and editorial - much less engaging in something as over the top as the Times auto show package. There&#039;s a line there somewhere, and I guess it&#039;s up to every media outlet as to whether they feel they have crossed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damian: No, I&#8217;m not really perplexed. I&#8217;ve worked for several newspapers, and founded one of my own, so I&#8217;m well aware of the realities of ad dependence. Still, I have never filed a story about how great cigarettes are, etc., and every decent editor or publisher I&#8217;ve ever known chafed at the notion of mixing sales and editorial &#8211; much less engaging in something as over the top as the Times auto show package. There&#8217;s a line there somewhere, and I guess it&#8217;s up to every media outlet as to whether they feel they have crossed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30507</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30507</guid>
		<description>Aw, come on. This post is not that extreme. The paper&#039;s flimsy reasoning that NYC drivers must be some kind of automobile devotees to go up against &lt;i&gt;all those obstacles&lt;/i&gt; needed to be ridiculed. You can&#039;t drive a car over salt half the year, and leave it on the street to be bumped into, enthusiastically. If auto ads (and the paper&#039;s auto section they pay for) say one thing to America, &quot;look at smart New Yorkers driving SUVs to exclusive clubs for a night on the town!&quot; then we need to call bullshit on that.

As New York becomes visibly less dependent on and concerned with automobiles, word will get out whether auto company marketing departments like it or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, come on. This post is not that extreme. The paper&#8217;s flimsy reasoning that NYC drivers must be some kind of automobile devotees to go up against <i>all those obstacles</i> needed to be ridiculed. You can&#8217;t drive a car over salt half the year, and leave it on the street to be bumped into, enthusiastically. If auto ads (and the paper&#8217;s auto section they pay for) say one thing to America, &#8220;look at smart New Yorkers driving SUVs to exclusive clubs for a night on the town!&#8221; then we need to call bullshit on that.</p>
<p>As New York becomes visibly less dependent on and concerned with automobiles, word will get out whether auto company marketing departments like it or not.</p>
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		<title>By: not a driver</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30506</link>
		<dc:creator>not a driver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30506</guid>
		<description>I am perfectly happy to see the times take money from all kinds of corporate monstrosities and then use the money for editorial space to promote street safety and other good liberal causes. I don&#039;t eat out much, but I don&#039;t begrudge the dining section. Different readers have different interests, and some people are fascinated by auto shows. Not me, but whatever. No one beyond the fervid believers will take your site seriously if you continue to be so over the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am perfectly happy to see the times take money from all kinds of corporate monstrosities and then use the money for editorial space to promote street safety and other good liberal causes. I don&#8217;t eat out much, but I don&#8217;t begrudge the dining section. Different readers have different interests, and some people are fascinated by auto shows. Not me, but whatever. No one beyond the fervid believers will take your site seriously if you continue to be so over the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie D.</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30504</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30504</guid>
		<description>We are bombarded with automobile ads and articles about automobiles in print, on TV, and on the Internet.  Why isn&#039;t there a weekly section in the newspaper about the latest bicycles, or the latest transit technology?  Why don&#039;t we see commercials showing how riding a bicycle can even more enjoyable than driving a car?  

On a side note, ever notice how the auto ads always show people driving through congestion-free cities?  It&#039;s ironic that they glorify driving in the places where driving makes the least amount of sense.  Are suburban multi-lane arterials not as exciting?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are bombarded with automobile ads and articles about automobiles in print, on TV, and on the Internet.  Why isn&#8217;t there a weekly section in the newspaper about the latest bicycles, or the latest transit technology?  Why don&#8217;t we see commercials showing how riding a bicycle can even more enjoyable than driving a car?  </p>
<p>On a side note, ever notice how the auto ads always show people driving through congestion-free cities?  It&#8217;s ironic that they glorify driving in the places where driving makes the least amount of sense.  Are suburban multi-lane arterials not as exciting?!</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Varone</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Varone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30501</guid>
		<description>I would contribute to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would contribute to that.</p>
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		<title>By: Nona</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30500</link>
		<dc:creator>Nona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30500</guid>
		<description>Advocates should consider buying the occasional ad to beat up on Bloomberg and the like for doing nothing (or nothing right) on transportation rather than issuing the incessant stream of wonk studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Advocates should consider buying the occasional ad to beat up on Bloomberg and the like for doing nothing (or nothing right) on transportation rather than issuing the incessant stream of wonk studies.</p>
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		<title>By: Damian</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30499</link>
		<dc:creator>Damian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/04/auto-show-worship-still-a-sign-of-the-times/#comment-30499</guid>
		<description>Perpelxing? Really? Don&#039;t be naive. Ads are not being bought by advocates for pedestrians, transit, and livable cities. They&#039;re being bought by Ford, Toyota, etc. Until that changes you can count on extensive coverage of their industry. In a perfect world, you&#039;re right -- The Times would decline to promote a product that adversely affects health, livability and our economy. But in the real world the newspaper business is at least partly about selling ads. 

That said, auto advertising should bear Surgeon General&#039;s warnings like cigarette ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perpelxing? Really? Don&#8217;t be naive. Ads are not being bought by advocates for pedestrians, transit, and livable cities. They&#8217;re being bought by Ford, Toyota, etc. Until that changes you can count on extensive coverage of their industry. In a perfect world, you&#8217;re right &#8212; The Times would decline to promote a product that adversely affects health, livability and our economy. But in the real world the newspaper business is at least partly about selling ads. </p>
<p>That said, auto advertising should bear Surgeon General&#8217;s warnings like cigarette ads.</p>
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