Comments on: DOT Pledged Ped Safety Fixes by 2006 on Deadly Third Ave http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:01:47 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29255 JK Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:50:44 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29255 Despite its long and tortured history, Downtown Brooklyn Traffic Calming remains the only large scale, funded and community board approved set of traffic calming and pedestrian safety measures in New York City. If you check out the project links you will find tens, maybe hundreds of neckdowns and other calming devices in the community board approved "Action Items" section of the plan. The local electeds should be very concerned that this funded and approved project is nowhere to be seen, while children are being killed. Despite its long and tortured history, Downtown Brooklyn Traffic Calming remains the only large scale, funded and community board approved set of traffic calming and pedestrian safety measures in New York City. If you check out the project links you will find tens, maybe hundreds of neckdowns and other calming devices in the community board approved "Action Items" section of the plan. The local electeds should be very concerned that this funded and approved project is nowhere to be seen, while children are being killed.

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29212 ddartley Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:24:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29212 Anonymous: in previous discussions here on that subject, I was a little zealous in warning about possible dangers of "homemade traffic calming." But now, all I'd say to anyone considering doing something themselves is please try not to do anything that could cause a car to lose control, and also be aware that you're asking for legal consequences (which is often admirable anyway). I do think the "mental speed bumps" discussed earlier on streetsblog are the best kind of "homemade traffic calming" (since they're mainly visual, not physical, and therefore don't create the kind of hazards I was screaming about). Anonymous: in previous discussions here on that subject, I was a little zealous in warning about possible dangers of "homemade traffic calming." But now, all I'd say to anyone considering doing something themselves is please try not to do anything that could cause a car to lose control, and also be aware that you're asking for legal consequences (which is often admirable anyway).

I do think the "mental speed bumps" discussed earlier on streetsblog are the best kind of "homemade traffic calming" (since they're mainly visual, not physical, and therefore don't create the kind of hazards I was screaming about).

]]> By: anonymous http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29181 anonymous Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:00:07 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29181 Is it possible to start guerrilla traffic calming measures? Seriously, how much would it cost to hire a dump truck with some asphalt and put in some speed bumps? Just put in some big, high speed bumps and if the city tears 'em out, put 'em back in. You've got 3 people dead at this intersection, and still nothing happens. Seems to me like it's long past time for some non-violent civil protest. Our streets should not be death zones. Is it possible to start guerrilla traffic calming measures? Seriously, how much would it cost to hire a dump truck with some asphalt and put in some speed bumps? Just put in some big, high speed bumps and if the city tears 'em out, put 'em back in.

You've got 3 people dead at this intersection, and still nothing happens. Seems to me like it's long past time for some non-violent civil protest. Our streets should not be death zones.

]]> By: Happy Camper http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29166 Happy Camper Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:52:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29166 This sounds familiar doesn't it ? In ancient civilizations, one had to make a human sacrifice for the Gods to listen to them . Human sacrifice to God Bloomberg and God Weinshall always gets their attention . And we think other countries are barabaric ! This sounds familiar doesn't it ?
In ancient civilizations, one had to make a human sacrifice for the Gods to listen to them .
Human sacrifice to God Bloomberg and God Weinshall always gets their attention .

And we think other countries are barabaric !

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29153 ddartley Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:49:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29153 How respectful--the City didn't just give the two Brooklyn boys a moment of silence; they gave them three years of silence. How respectful--the City didn't just give the two Brooklyn boys a moment of silence; they gave them three years of silence.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29142 Steve Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:57:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29142 Brent, it would be extremely difficult to establish that the DOT's failure to put in the promised claming devices was the cause of the collision, especially since there is a ticket stating that this guy failed to yield to pedestrians in the cross walk. DOT would argue, even with the neck-down/bulbout, the guy still would have failed to yield. There are only a very few situations in which courts have regulated prosecutorial discretion, but they are few. Most courts would take the view that, since the Brooklyn D.A. is elected, it is voters, not courts, that should force a change in prosecutorial priorities. To mount a legal challenge you would need to analogize what's going on with drivers who kill in New York to systematic failures to prosecute crimes against blacks in the Jim Crow South. Not impossible (and the analogy is actually quite apt), but very hard and expensive to make such a case. Brent, it would be extremely difficult to establish that the DOT's failure to put in the promised claming devices was the cause of the collision, especially since there is a ticket stating that this guy failed to yield to pedestrians in the cross walk. DOT would argue, even with the neck-down/bulbout, the guy still would have failed to yield.

There are only a very few situations in which courts have regulated prosecutorial discretion, but they are few. Most courts would take the view that, since the Brooklyn D.A. is elected, it is voters, not courts, that should force a change in prosecutorial priorities. To mount a legal challenge you would need to analogize what's going on with drivers who kill in New York to systematic failures to prosecute crimes against blacks in the Jim Crow South. Not impossible (and the analogy is actually quite apt), but very hard and expensive to make such a case.

]]> By: nobody in particular http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29141 nobody in particular Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:24:21 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29141 Where is Marty Markowitz on *anything* of substance? Where is Marty Markowitz on *anything* of substance?

]]> By: Chuck http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29140 Chuck Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:14:29 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29140 ...and where is Marty Markowitz on this? ...and where is Marty Markowitz on this?

]]> By: brent http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29139 brent Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:03:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29139 In earlier discussions relating to this topic I had mentioned that in light of the fact that the DOT had a previous commitment to improve safety on Third Ave and did not act, the family of James Nyprie may have a valid civil case against them. It was commented that this would be an unfortunate setback for an already fiscally challenged agency. I agree. However, if such a case were judged in favor of the plaintiff, it would set a precedent once and for all that the DOT is indeed responsible for pedestrian safety. We do not currently have this resolve. If the case were lost, the public, including advocates and activists, would know that the DOT is categorically not responsible. Then we could really question the local government; Who is responsible for street safety? Why are they not doing their job? In earlier discussions relating to this topic I had mentioned that in light of the fact that the DOT had a previous commitment to improve safety on Third Ave and did not act, the family of James Nyprie may have a valid civil case against them. It was commented that this would be an unfortunate setback for an already fiscally challenged agency. I agree. However, if such a case were judged in favor of the plaintiff, it would set a precedent once and for all that the DOT is indeed responsible for pedestrian safety. We do not currently have this resolve. If the case were lost, the public, including advocates and activists, would know that the DOT is categorically not responsible. Then we could really question the local government; Who is responsible for street safety? Why are they not doing their job?

]]> By: Charlie D. http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29136 Charlie D. Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:36:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29136 What recourse does someone have if someone commits a crime and the police don't charge that person? For example, it seems in many cases the police don't charge a driver with vehicular homicide when they run over someone. The victim's family can sue the driver, but that is just for civil damages, right? Can they also sue the city or state for neglecting to press criminal charges? What recourse does someone have if someone commits a crime and the police don't charge that person? For example, it seems in many cases the police don't charge a driver with vehicular homicide when they run over someone. The victim's family can sue the driver, but that is just for civil damages, right? Can they also sue the city or state for neglecting to press criminal charges?

]]> By: tony http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29133 tony Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:25:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29133 My elderly uncle was killed by a speeding driver on 3rd Ave & 20th Street. His body was flung 30 feet in the air as his brother, my dad, watched helplessly. The driver didn't have a license or registration on him and the police let him leave the scene. Later the police found that the driver had more than 18 suspended licenses! Why would the city suspend it more than once and not take any better action? The driver walked, my uncle lingered for a week in Lutheran Medical Center and died on the operating table of a heart attack. My dad never recovered from watching his brother killed before his eyes. He survived World War II in the Pacific but was cut down by an American on 3rd Avenue. Iris Weinshal, the commissioner, should be prosecuted. But instead, the family will merely have a better law suit and all of us victims will pay thru taxes for our politicians errors. tony My elderly uncle was killed by a speeding driver on 3rd Ave & 20th Street. His body was flung 30 feet in the air as his brother, my dad, watched helplessly. The driver didn't have a license or registration on him and the police let him leave the scene. Later the police found that the driver had more than 18 suspended licenses! Why would the city suspend it more than once and not take any better action? The driver walked, my uncle lingered for a week in Lutheran Medical Center and died on the operating table of a heart attack. My dad never recovered from watching his brother killed before his eyes. He survived World War II in the Pacific but was cut down by an American on 3rd Avenue. Iris Weinshal, the commissioner, should be prosecuted. But instead, the family will merely have a better law suit and all of us victims will pay thru taxes for our politicians errors. tony

]]> By: Orcutt http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29131 Orcutt Tue, 20 Feb 2007 01:20:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29131 Thought you just reported that NYC fatalities increased in 2006 three days ago? If true, reversal or leveling of the trend is something that warrants more attention from city advocates. Thought you just reported that NYC fatalities increased in 2006 three days ago?

If true, reversal or leveling of the trend is something that warrants more attention from city advocates.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29129 Steve Tue, 20 Feb 2007 01:11:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29129 As pointed out here previously, we'd probably see a lot fewer Hummers in Brooklyn (and perhaps also in Manhattan) if the weight restrictions on the Brooklyn Bridge and the midtown section of the FDR were enforced: http://streetsblog.wrkng.net/2006/08/25/brooklyn-bridges-suv-ban-hidden-in-plain-sight/ As pointed out here previously, we'd probably see a lot fewer Hummers in Brooklyn (and perhaps also in Manhattan) if the weight restrictions on the Brooklyn Bridge and the midtown section of the FDR were enforced:

http://streetsblog.wrkng.net/2006/08/25/brooklyn-bridges-suv-ban-hidden-in-plain-sight/

]]> By: someguy http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29126 someguy Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:06:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29126 CARBON TAX ...and just keep working to make it socially laughable to drive one of 'em. CARBON TAX
...and just keep working to make it socially laughable to drive one of 'em.

]]> By: Fred Kent http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29125 Fred Kent Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:59:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29125 The Hummer is an anti-community/human atrocity that should be outlawed from any community that cares about its well-being. This last killing was on Baltic Street which we live on. I know where it happened. I am so appalled by the arrogance of people who drive these oversized vehicles. What can we do about it? The Hummer is an anti-community/human atrocity that should be outlawed from any community that cares about its well-being. This last killing was on Baltic Street which we live on. I know where it happened. I am so appalled by the arrogance of people who drive these oversized vehicles. What can we do about it?

]]> By: Charlie D. http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-29119 Charlie D. Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:48:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/#comment-29119 "In both cases the drivers walked away with a summons from police." This just astounds me. Why are there no serious consequences?! Compare that with a recent incident of a dump truck driver/off-duty police officer running into and killing a little girl on her bicycle just outside of Boston: "An off-duty Mansfield police officer pleaded innocent Tuesday to motor vehicle homicide and other charges related to a Dec. 2 accident in which a 10-year-old Foxboro girl was killed while riding a bicycle near her home." http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2007/02/07/news/news91.txt "In both cases the drivers walked away with a summons from police."

This just astounds me. Why are there no serious consequences?! Compare that with a recent incident of a dump truck driver/off-duty police officer running into and killing a little girl on her bicycle just outside of Boston:

"An off-duty Mansfield police officer pleaded innocent Tuesday to motor vehicle homicide and other charges related to a Dec. 2 accident in which a 10-year-old Foxboro girl was killed while riding a bicycle near her home."

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2007/02/07/news/news91.txt

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