Comments on: Three Concrete Proposals for New York City Traffic Relief http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:39:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Sam http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-24500 Sam Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:25:02 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-24500 Charge insane amounts for street parking, like maybe $100. And I said one hundred dollars, not one dollar. Charge insane amounts for street parking, like maybe $100. And I said one hundred dollars, not one dollar.

]]> By: jg http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-20004 jg Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:34:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-20004 I see more cars parked on NYC streets with other State's plates, than I do see with NY plates and do recognize this is in part b/c people choose to register their vehicles at alternate residences, but to thwart this activity and congestion propose a NYC resident sticker for all registed vehicles. This sticker would be required for curb-side meter parking and those that are from outside of the city can use public transportation, rent vehicles that have NYC registrations, or park in garages. NYC for NYers. I see more cars parked on NYC streets with other State's plates, than I do see with NY plates and do recognize this is in part b/c people choose to register their vehicles at alternate residences, but to thwart this activity and congestion propose

a NYC resident sticker for all registed vehicles. This sticker would be required for curb-side meter parking and those that are from outside of the city can use public transportation, rent vehicles that have NYC registrations, or park in garages.

NYC for NYers.

]]> By: Joey http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15810 Joey Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:43:35 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15810 Seriously: Where the hell is academic NYC on these issues anyway? Aside from Lee Sander at NYU, where is Columbia, CUNY and the rest of the NYU faculty when it comes to actually engaging in real world public policy on these vital, cross-disciplinary issues? The universities seem to be totally non-existent. It's all up to non-profit advo groups, engineering firm consultancies and the business community. Pathetic! Seriously: Where the hell is academic NYC on these issues anyway? Aside from Lee Sander at NYU, where is Columbia, CUNY and the rest of the NYU faculty when it comes to actually engaging in real world public policy on these vital, cross-disciplinary issues? The universities seem to be totally non-existent. It's all up to non-profit advo groups, engineering firm consultancies and the business community. Pathetic!

]]> By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15713 JK Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:39:08 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15713 Oh yeah, Columbia guy needs to get out of the Ivory Tower and go talk to the state legislature and City Council, not lecture panelists at a think tank event. Specific proposals, not calls to action, produce change. Oh yeah, Columbia guy needs to get out of the Ivory Tower and go talk to the state legislature and City Council, not lecture panelists at a think tank event. Specific proposals, not calls to action, produce change.

]]> By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15712 JK Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:37:23 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15712 The big lesson of the moment is that public support for CBD pricing is so high given the small amount of public education on the issue. Higher than in London at the onset of pricing! CBD pricing proponents will have to clearly identify (with handy maps)which neighborhoods would benefit from a reduction in traffic and by how much; and, where the motorists affected by pricing are coming from and what their alternatives are. As Schaller showed earlier this year, 90% of motorist traveling to CBD have easy transit access. But this info is barely starting to emerge from wonk land. The big lesson of the moment is that public support for CBD pricing is so high given the small amount of public education on the issue. Higher than in London at the onset of pricing! CBD pricing proponents will have to clearly identify (with handy maps)which neighborhoods would benefit from a reduction in traffic and by how much; and, where the motorists affected by pricing are coming from and what their alternatives are. As Schaller showed earlier this year, 90% of motorist traveling to CBD have easy transit access. But this info is barely starting to emerge from wonk land.

]]> By: AD http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15685 AD Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:20:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15685 Frank, Brent and Joey, Parochialism? Ha! These are the same parts of town that embraced anti-urban downzoning, which ensures that places like far eastern Queens cannot legally reach transit-supporting residential densities. It also means housing there and in NYC in general becomes more scarce. This is good for existing property owners but bad for anyone who wants to build or buy housing in the city. It forces people who would live in the city into the auto-dependent suburbs. This is bad for a nation dependent on middle-eastern oil, and bad for a world that needs to reduce carbon emissions. Eastern Queens politicians: Parochial? NO WAY. Frank, Brent and Joey,
Parochialism? Ha! These are the same parts of town that embraced anti-urban downzoning, which ensures that places like far eastern Queens cannot legally reach transit-supporting residential densities. It also means housing there and in NYC in general becomes more scarce. This is good for existing property owners but bad for anyone who wants to build or buy housing in the city. It forces people who would live in the city into the auto-dependent suburbs. This is bad for a nation dependent on middle-eastern oil, and bad for a world that needs to reduce carbon emissions. Eastern Queens politicians: Parochial? NO WAY.

]]> By: Komanoff http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15605 Komanoff Fri, 08 Dec 2006 02:52:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15605 <p>AD's point -- When more people ride transit, service improves -- is important. There's a time lag, however, before the increased revenues from the higher ridership can get re-invested in improved service. In the short term, which we all know is all-important in NY politics, higher ridership usually just ends up packing people more tightly.</p> <p>I would formulate it differently: road pricing improves "surface transit" (bus) service instantly, due to the easing in traffic and resulting increase in traffic speeds. It gets better, though: the higher traffic speeds attract more bus passengers, largely from private cars, which eases traffic further, increasing traffic speeds further, attracting still more riders, etc., in a reinforcing "virtuous cycle." Then there's the further benefit that the greater traffic speeds allow the same number of buses to carry more passengers, which generates economies that can be re-invested in still higher levels of service ...</p> <p>Note that under this formulation, road pricing revenues may not have to be dedicated to improved service (though of course politically it's wise to promise that they will be ... and then to redirect the revenues to transit expansions, once the virtuous cycle outlined above manifests itself).</p> <p>Needless to say, the Weprins and McCaffreys don't believe in the virtuous cycle (or claim not to) since they hold that no car trips will be eliminated by road pricing.</p> <p>For more on the v.c., see U-C Irvine Econ Prof Ken Small's lovely article in "Access," <a href="http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~ksmall/Access%2026%20-%2003%20-%20Road%20Pricing%20and%20Public%20Transit.pdf">Road Pricing and Public Transit: Unnoticed Lessons from London</a>. </p> AD's point -- When more people ride transit, service improves -- is important. There's a time lag, however, before the increased revenues from the higher ridership can get re-invested in improved service. In the short term, which we all know is all-important in NY politics, higher ridership usually just ends up packing people more tightly.

I would formulate it differently: road pricing improves "surface transit" (bus) service instantly, due to the easing in traffic and resulting increase in traffic speeds. It gets better, though: the higher traffic speeds attract more bus passengers, largely from private cars, which eases traffic further, increasing traffic speeds further, attracting still more riders, etc., in a reinforcing "virtuous cycle." Then there's the further benefit that the greater traffic speeds allow the same number of buses to carry more passengers, which generates economies that can be re-invested in still higher levels of service ...

Note that under this formulation, road pricing revenues may not have to be dedicated to improved service (though of course politically it's wise to promise that they will be ... and then to redirect the revenues to transit expansions, once the virtuous cycle outlined above manifests itself).

Needless to say, the Weprins and McCaffreys don't believe in the virtuous cycle (or claim not to) since they hold that no car trips will be eliminated by road pricing.

For more on the v.c., see U-C Irvine Econ Prof Ken Small's lovely article in "Access," Road Pricing and Public Transit: Unnoticed Lessons from London.

]]> By: AD http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15550 AD Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:34:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15550 Congestion pricing is the most important transit-related policy before the city right now. Here's the best part of it: When more people ride transit, service improves. When more people drive, service declines. So, encouraging drivers into the "mode shift" will improve the experience of the remaining drivers AND all transit riders. Many people with negative perceptions of transit AT THE OUTSET will find that, post-congestion pricing, the service turns out to be better than they expected. Congestion pricing is the most important transit-related policy before the city right now. Here's the best part of it: When more people ride transit, service improves. When more people drive, service declines. So, encouraging drivers into the "mode shift" will improve the experience of the remaining drivers AND all transit riders. Many people with negative perceptions of transit AT THE OUTSET will find that, post-congestion pricing, the service turns out to be better than they expected.

]]> By: Joey http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15519 Joey Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:06:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15519 How is political party even relevant when you don't have a challenger in your primary election and you win the general election with something like 95% of the vote? I think Saddam Hussein had closer elections back when he was in office. How is political party even relevant when you don't have a challenger in your primary election and you win the general election with something like 95% of the vote? I think Saddam Hussein had closer elections back when he was in office.

]]> By: brent http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15507 brent Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:24:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15507 Democrats such as Werpin represent an interesting aspect of this debate. He is obviously consumed by a status quo mindset, more typical of republicans. Democrats have traditionally prided themselves on openness to new ideas and experimentation. Now we are seeing more and more of them representing the old ways, specifically that motorists should enjoy special entitlements in our society. I will commend him, however, for clearly stating his position rather than dodge the subject to focus on child molesters and druck driving. Democrats such as Werpin represent an interesting aspect of this debate. He is obviously consumed by a status quo mindset, more typical of republicans. Democrats have traditionally prided themselves on openness to new ideas and experimentation. Now we are seeing more and more of them representing the old ways, specifically that motorists should enjoy special entitlements in our society. I will commend him, however, for clearly stating his position rather than dodge the subject to focus on child molesters and druck driving.

]]> By: Frank http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15500 Frank Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:33:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15500 The thing that struck me as I watched the Queens/Labor/Auto Club contingent speaking at City Hall yesterday is just how incredibly parochial these people are. Weprin et. al. could give an absolute crap about what automobile dependence does to their city, their country or their planet. Their blocking the box and double parking enforcement proposals show that this group's interests go no further than saving five minutes on their next car trip to the dry cleaners. They are far more concerned with exertion of political power than implmentation of sound urban policy. These guys win their general elections with the kind of margins that Saddam Hussein used to expect. They are hacks and the only thing that can save us from them are term limits. The thing that struck me as I watched the Queens/Labor/Auto Club contingent speaking at City Hall yesterday is just how incredibly parochial these people are.

Weprin et. al. could give an absolute crap about what automobile dependence does to their city, their country or their planet. Their blocking the box and double parking enforcement proposals show that this group's interests go no further than saving five minutes on their next car trip to the dry cleaners.

They are far more concerned with exertion of political power than implmentation of sound urban policy.

These guys win their general elections with the kind of margins that Saddam Hussein used to expect. They are hacks and the only thing that can save us from them are term limits.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15491 Glenn Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:57:45 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15491 Oh, and don't forget what keeps property taxes in Weprin's district at a fraction of Nassau county - that's right, Manhattan real estate values. Oh, and don't forget what keeps property taxes in Weprin's district at a fraction of Nassau county - that's right, Manhattan real estate values.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15489 Glenn Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:55:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15489 I hope Liu didn't get stuck in traffic if he didn't take the very convenient 2 stop ride on the 4/5 Trains. What I don't get about the Eastern Queens contingent is that they seem to focus so much on Manhattan as the center of the Universe. What about creating a real center to your own community and luring businesses out of Manhattan to your area? And if we don't fix this congestion problem soon, will Manhattan even be the financial/media/etc capital of the world? Then what will your constituents do? Stop looking to Manhattan like leech looks at a big juicy vein and start thinking about how to create real value in your own backyard. I hope Liu didn't get stuck in traffic if he didn't take the very convenient 2 stop ride on the 4/5 Trains.

What I don't get about the Eastern Queens contingent is that they seem to focus so much on Manhattan as the center of the Universe. What about creating a real center to your own community and luring businesses out of Manhattan to your area? And if we don't fix this congestion problem soon, will Manhattan even be the financial/media/etc capital of the world? Then what will your constituents do?

Stop looking to Manhattan like leech looks at a big juicy vein and start thinking about how to create real value in your own backyard.

]]> By: Carrie McLaren http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15488 Carrie McLaren Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:48:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15488 Is there anything you'd recommend the average New Yorker do to show support - and help rally more troops - for congestion pricing and related "transportation alternatives"? Is there anything you'd recommend the average New Yorker do to show support - and help rally more troops - for congestion pricing and related "transportation alternatives"?

]]> By: Adam http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-15487 Adam Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:46:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/07/three-concrete-proposals-for-new-york-city-traffic-relief/#comment-15487 <blockquote>To make these ideas politically palatable, Schaller added, all revenues generated by these new plans would need to be plowed back into public transport - especially in underserved areas like Staten Island, Eastern Queens and the Upper East Side.</blockquote> <blockquote>Councilmember David Weprin ... disagreed with Schaller and Schwartz ... he noted, more frequent express bus service would have to complement any changes that made driving into Manhattan more expensive.</blockquote> What part of <em>plowing revenues into public transport - especially in underserved areas</em> - do Councilmember Weprin and the other pro-congestion folks not comprehend?

To make these ideas politically palatable, Schaller added, all revenues generated by these new plans would need to be plowed back into public transport - especially in underserved areas like Staten Island, Eastern Queens and the Upper East Side.

Councilmember David Weprin ... disagreed with Schaller and Schwartz ... he noted, more frequent express bus service would have to complement any changes that made driving into Manhattan more expensive.

What part of plowing revenues into public transport - especially in underserved areas - do Councilmember Weprin and the other pro-congestion folks not comprehend?

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