Comments on: New Bike Lanes and Markings for the Lower East Side http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:07:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: gibletbucket http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14655 gibletbucket Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:04:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14655 The carheads are sensing the impending constriction of their way of life. This is their way of fighting back. The carheads are sensing the impending constriction of their way of life. This is their way of fighting back.

]]> By: Jason http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14639 Jason Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:38:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14639 This morning I noticed that some of the stencils look like they have been tampered with. Like somebody tried to remove them! I will take pictures tomorrow morning. This morning I noticed that some of the stencils look like they have been tampered with. Like somebody tried to remove them! I will take pictures tomorrow morning.

]]> By: gibletbucket http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14638 gibletbucket Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:33:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14638 This bike lane is reportedly under attack. http://groups.google.com/group/nyc.bicycles/msg/c9082325bc002df1 This bike lane is reportedly under attack.

http://groups.google.com/group/nyc.bicycles/msg/c9082325bc002df1

]]> By: David Chesler http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14609 David Chesler Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:14:07 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14609 It's sure confusing me! But as long as folks are going to use the numbered system, I'd like to understand it. So do I now understand that the separation for Class 1 can be as little as a curb or a bollard, and as much as many yards of median (or woods, in the case of a rail-trail)? Does this numbered system cover ways that are prohibited to motor vehicles some of the time? Does it take into account other users? (A rail-trail near me is not plowed in the winter. This is a supposedly a feature, not a bug, because it's a "multi-use" path and the primary users in the winter are cross-country skiers.) It's sure confusing me! But as long as folks are going to use the numbered system, I'd like to understand it.

So do I now understand that the separation for Class 1 can be as little as a curb or a bollard, and as much as many yards of median (or woods, in the case of a rail-trail)?

Does this numbered system cover ways that are prohibited to motor vehicles some of the time?

Does it take into account other users? (A rail-trail near me is not plowed in the winter. This is a supposedly a feature, not a bug, because it's a "multi-use" path and the primary users in the winter are cross-country skiers.)

]]> By: someguy http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14023 someguy Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:39:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14023 David Chesler: I believe Class I includes any instance where a bike lane is physically separated from the rest of the roadway - so Class I lanes are actually referred to as PATHS, not lanes. Class 2 lanes, as far as I know, only refer to striped lanes. If there's any physical separation from vehicles, it's Class 1. But it's less important to use these Class classifications (no pun intended) than to avoid confusion by using the more generally understood terms. So you have: Physically Separated Bike Path (aka Class 1) On-Street (Striped) Bike Lane (aka Class 2) On-Street Recommended/Signed Route (aka Class 3) David Chesler:
I believe Class I includes any instance where a bike lane is physically separated from the rest of the roadway - so Class I lanes are actually referred to as PATHS, not lanes. Class 2 lanes, as far as I know, only refer to striped lanes. If there's any physical separation from vehicles, it's Class 1.

But it's less important to use these Class classifications (no pun intended) than to avoid confusion by using the more generally understood terms.

So you have:
Physically Separated Bike Path (aka Class 1)
On-Street (Striped) Bike Lane (aka Class 2)
On-Street Recommended/Signed Route (aka Class 3)

]]> By: Ian D http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-14011 Ian D Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:25:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-14011 steveo: I think that as long as you know that transition is coming up at Christie, you can merge into the car-traffic (if it's moving, even!) and take your place in the lane, and then slide over to the right side when the lane re-emerges. It's a bit of a surprise if you don't know it's coming! steveo:

I think that as long as you know that transition is coming up at Christie, you can merge into the car-traffic (if it's moving, even!) and take your place in the lane, and then slide over to the right side when the lane re-emerges. It's a bit of a surprise if you don't know it's coming!

]]> By: David Chesler http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13951 David Chesler Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:41:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13951 Does Class 2 encompass all of paint-separated, permeable-barrier-separated and curb-separated? Does Class 2 encompass all of paint-separated, permeable-barrier-separated and curb-separated?

]]> By: steveo http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13897 steveo Fri, 01 Dec 2006 16:19:16 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13897 Ian -- great pictures! Thanks for posting. I like to take Grand to Chrystie for the Manny B. Re: http://bikehoustonst.net/grand-st/slides/IMG_0816.html I would continue forward along the double-yellow (carefully) and move to the right when I could (or stay on the double-yellow -- that often works pretty well if you keep your eyes open. It's also legal if you're preparing to make a left turn (though I am not a lawyer)). (But in real life, I turn right on Christie, so I would probably have already moved out of the bike lane to make my right turn.) Ian -- great pictures! Thanks for posting. I like to take Grand to Chrystie for the Manny B.

Re: http://bikehoustonst.net/grand-st/slides/IMG_0816.html

I would continue forward along the double-yellow (carefully) and move to the right when I could (or stay on the double-yellow -- that often works pretty well if you keep your eyes open. It's also legal if you're preparing to make a left turn (though I am not a lawyer)).

(But in real life, I turn right on Christie, so I would probably have already moved out of the bike lane to make my right turn.)

]]> By: Ian D http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13825 Ian D Fri, 01 Dec 2006 08:04:18 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13825 As part of the Houston St. Bike Lanes campaign, I rode down to Grand St. today and took pictures. View them <a href="http://bikehoustonst.net/grand-st" rel="nofollow">here</a>. As part of the Houston St. Bike Lanes campaign, I rode down to Grand St. today and took pictures.

View them here.

]]> By: Ian D http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13807 Ian D Fri, 01 Dec 2006 06:04:07 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13807 This is excellent news - Grand St. was always so slow that I took my life in my hands and rode along the deadly Houston St. when I wanted to head to the Manh. Bridge. When I tried out Grand St. today - and took 70 photos - I could tool along while the cars dutifully piled up in their lane. And agreed: the transition at Chrystie is difficult. I'm not sure how the DOT Bicycle Planners envision cyclists handing it... This is excellent news - Grand St. was always so slow that I took my life in my hands and rode along the deadly Houston St. when I wanted to head to the Manh. Bridge. When I tried out Grand St. today - and took 70 photos - I could tool along while the cars dutifully piled up in their lane.

And agreed: the transition at Chrystie is difficult. I'm not sure how the DOT Bicycle Planners envision cyclists handing it...

]]> By: Mordecai http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13788 Mordecai Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:33:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13788 I just noticed a new bike lane on W 77th St! It's buffered on the two-way portion between CPW and Columbus S of the Natural History Museum, and then a single stripe next to the parked cars on the one-way portion W of Columbus. Now if we could just get a N/S bike lane somewhere between CPW and the river... I just noticed a new bike lane on W 77th St! It's buffered on the two-way portion between CPW and Columbus S of the Natural History Museum, and then a single stripe next to the parked cars on the one-way portion W of Columbus. Now if we could just get a N/S bike lane somewhere between CPW and the river...

]]> By: crzwdjk http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13690 crzwdjk Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:12:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13690 The "class" classification is: Class 1 - completely separate from traffic, such as the West Side path Class 2 - on street separate lane Class 3 - a little green sign that says "bike route". The "class" classification is:
Class 1 - completely separate from traffic, such as the West Side path
Class 2 - on street separate lane
Class 3 - a little green sign that says "bike route".

]]> By: Jason http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13677 Jason Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:39:53 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13677 <p>I noticed that the lane is really confusing at Chrystie when the buffered lane begins...If you are in the bike lane going west on Grand you are on the left side of the street. When Grand St. intersects with Chrystie, Grand becomes a two way street so you have to cross over to the right side of the street where the buffered bike lane is. There isn't much time to do this, and it can be difficult during rush hour.</p> <p>Also, there are ALOT of large potholes in the bikelane on Grand especially if you are travelling East. I wonder if DOT plans on fixing these in addition to these new bike lanes?</p> <p>I think Steve is right about the dashed line on the bike lane - but it didn't occur to me when I first saw them. I always assume that I can enter and exit a bike lane whenever I want. </p> I noticed that the lane is really confusing at Chrystie when the buffered lane begins...If you are in the bike lane going west on Grand you are on the left side of the street. When Grand St. intersects with Chrystie, Grand becomes a two way street so you have to cross over to the right side of the street where the buffered bike lane is. There isn't much time to do this, and it can be difficult during rush hour.

Also, there are ALOT of large potholes in the bikelane on Grand especially if you are travelling East. I wonder if DOT plans on fixing these in addition to these new bike lanes?

I think Steve is right about the dashed line on the bike lane - but it didn't occur to me when I first saw them. I always assume that I can enter and exit a bike lane whenever I want.

]]> By: AM http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13665 AM Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:28:18 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13665 the lane begins back in soho at west broadway not just at chrystie st. a striped bike lane is class 2, not class 1. the lane begins back in soho at west broadway not just at chrystie st.

a striped bike lane is class 2, not class 1.

]]> By: mfs http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13638 mfs Thu, 30 Nov 2006 03:58:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13638 awesome- this is part of my commute to work! awesome- this is part of my commute to work!

]]> By: Jason http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13578 Jason Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:58:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13578 <p>Thanks Sabina. Fixed it. </p> Thanks Sabina. Fixed it.

]]> By: sabina http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13576 sabina Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:50:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13576 The striped median is on Grand Street, not on Essex Street. Madison Street on the LES also got a new bike lane. The striped median is on Grand Street, not on Essex Street.

Madison Street on the LES also got a new bike lane.

]]> By: AD http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13575 AD Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:45:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13575 Thanks for the update Jason. Glad to see these lanes getting striped. Thanks for the update Jason. Glad to see these lanes getting striped.

]]> By: Steve http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13562 Steve Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:48:24 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13562 My take on the design of these bike lanes is that the dashed line on bicyclists' side of the buffer indicates that bicyclists can enter and leave the bike lane as necessary to keep safe, while the solid line on the motorists' side means "motorists keep out of bike lane." This is consistent with the generally permissive nature of bicycle lane use in NYC, although if it is true it could be taken (incorrectly) to indicate that bicycle use in bicycle lanes defined by two solid white stripes is mandatory, rather than permissive. Thoughts? My take on the design of these bike lanes is that the dashed line on bicyclists' side of the buffer indicates that bicyclists can enter and leave the bike lane as necessary to keep safe, while the solid line on the motorists' side means "motorists keep out of bike lane." This is consistent with the generally permissive nature of bicycle lane use in NYC, although if it is true it could be taken (incorrectly) to indicate that bicycle use in bicycle lanes defined by two solid white stripes is mandatory, rather than permissive. Thoughts?

]]> By: crzwdjk http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/comment-page-1/#comment-13549 crzwdjk Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:15:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/29/new-bike-lanes-and-markings-for-the-lower-east-side/#comment-13549 ddartley: it depends. If you look at the fastest bikes, they go somewhere in the range of 17 to 25 mph, which is reasonable for cars. The slowest bikes, though, go 10-12 mph. You can't reasonably expect cars to be going at that speed. In fact, you can't even expect the faster cyclists to go at that speed. ddartley: it depends. If you look at the fastest bikes, they go somewhere in the range of 17 to 25 mph, which is reasonable for cars. The slowest bikes, though, go 10-12 mph. You can't reasonably expect cars to be going at that speed. In fact, you can't even expect the faster cyclists to go at that speed.

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