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	<title>Comments on: 45% of New Yorkers Receptive to a Congestion Charge</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mordecai</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13790</link>
		<dc:creator>Mordecai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13790</guid>
		<description>Somewhat tangential, but responding to CHG (28): I got an email from the Mayor&#039;s office responding to some TA form letter I sent in about parking passes, in which they made the point that the city has been cutting back, but the state and feds are continuing to issue passes with abandon, with no accountability to the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat tangential, but responding to CHG (28): I got an email from the Mayor&#8217;s office responding to some TA form letter I sent in about parking passes, in which they made the point that the city has been cutting back, but the state and feds are continuing to issue passes with abandon, with no accountability to the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Schaller</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13670</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Schaller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13670</guid>
		<description>Issues raised by Steve in #3 about reasons for opposition to c.p., among both auto and transit users, will be addressed in my report being released by the Manhattan Institute next week.  It&#039;s important to understand the varied reasons that people oppose c.p. to design a program that can gain public support.  
I&#039;d also like to underline the points made by Orcutt in #8 -- the Tri-State poll is encouraging in the level of support given the low level of awareness -- and Ethan in #132 -- c.p. should be part of a larger vision.  My report will have more to say about both.
Meanwhile, I recommend Mike Flynn&#039;s excellent review of the issues and the literature, noted in #4, and Jeff Zupan&#039;s 2003 RPA report (http://rpa.org/projects/transportation/congestion.html).
For an international overview of the literature on public acceptance of road pricing, see Urban Road Pricing Acceptance - http://www.imprint-eu.org/public/BJORN.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Issues raised by Steve in #3 about reasons for opposition to c.p., among both auto and transit users, will be addressed in my report being released by the Manhattan Institute next week.  It&#8217;s important to understand the varied reasons that people oppose c.p. to design a program that can gain public support.<br />
I&#8217;d also like to underline the points made by Orcutt in #8 &#8212; the Tri-State poll is encouraging in the level of support given the low level of awareness &#8212; and Ethan in #132 &#8212; c.p. should be part of a larger vision.  My report will have more to say about both.<br />
Meanwhile, I recommend Mike Flynn&#8217;s excellent review of the issues and the literature, noted in #4, and Jeff Zupan&#8217;s 2003 RPA report (<a href="http://rpa.org/projects/transportation/congestion.html" rel="nofollow">http://rpa.org/projects/transportation/congestion.html</a>).<br />
For an international overview of the literature on public acceptance of road pricing, see Urban Road Pricing Acceptance &#8211; <a href="http://www.imprint-eu.org/public/BJORN.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.imprint-eu.org/public/BJORN.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: CHG</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13648</link>
		<dc:creator>CHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 04:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13648</guid>
		<description>The city would also need to get serious about city employees getting a free pass on parking as they now do.   Expect that any resident discount will go to numerous city employees who do not actually live in the congestion charging zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The city would also need to get serious about city employees getting a free pass on parking as they now do.   Expect that any resident discount will go to numerous city employees who do not actually live in the congestion charging zone.</p>
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		<title>By: steveo</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13570</link>
		<dc:creator>steveo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13570</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll never understand why the Queens Chamber of Commerce opposes congestion charging....  If people are driving  into Manhattan less frequently, won&#039;t they be spending more money shopping locally in Queens?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll never understand why the Queens Chamber of Commerce opposes congestion charging&#8230;.  If people are driving  into Manhattan less frequently, won&#8217;t they be spending more money shopping locally in Queens?</p>
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		<title>By: Efficiency Nut</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13540</link>
		<dc:creator>Efficiency Nut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13540</guid>
		<description>Why does everyone talk about all the poor people who will be so adversely affected by CP?  By and large, poor people in NYC do not own cars, or if they do (family cars, etc), those vehicles are not often used to commute in the CBD.  Look at income to car-ownership numbers in NYC and you&#039;ll see this is a paper tiger that Weprin/Queens Chamber of Commerce keep feeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does everyone talk about all the poor people who will be so adversely affected by CP?  By and large, poor people in NYC do not own cars, or if they do (family cars, etc), those vehicles are not often used to commute in the CBD.  Look at income to car-ownership numbers in NYC and you&#8217;ll see this is a paper tiger that Weprin/Queens Chamber of Commerce keep feeding.</p>
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		<title>By: someguy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13444</link>
		<dc:creator>someguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13444</guid>
		<description>Steve - no.  They don&#039;t even know where the cameras are.  And the cameras are not just at the entries to the zone - they are throughout the zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve &#8211; no.  They don&#8217;t even know where the cameras are.  And the cameras are not just at the entries to the zone &#8211; they are throughout the zone.</p>
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		<title>By: steveo</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13442</link>
		<dc:creator>steveo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13442</guid>
		<description>Cars do not have to slow down in London.  &lt;blockquote&gt;There are fixed and mobile cameras both around the boundary and within the charging zone which capture images of the vehicle registration marks (number plates) that have been used in the zone. These images are matched to the database of payments and exemptions and where no match is found a Penalty Charge Notice is issued to the registered keeper.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Source: &lt;a href=&#039;https://tfl-cc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tfl_cc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=D-x-DPni&amp;p_lva=1649&amp;p_faqid=1649&amp;p_created=1121862892&amp;p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTg0JnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9JnBfcHJvZF9sdmwxPTExNSZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&amp;p_li=&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This awful URL&lt;/a&gt;

Regarding residents of London:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
If you live in the Congestion Charging
zone, you can register one private vehicle
for a 90% discount from the Congestion
Charge. This is known as a â€˜Residentsâ€™
discountâ€™. You must prove that you live
in the Congestion Charging zone and that
you own the vehicle.
The Residentsâ€™ discount is only available
to people who live in properties that are
mainly used for residential purposes and
if this is your main or permanent home.
If you live in the Congestion Charging zone
you can park off the public roads or, if you
have an on-street Residentsâ€™ parking
permit, in a Residentsâ€™ parking bay within
your local parking zone, without paying the
Congestion Charge, as long as you do not
move the vehicle during the hours of the
scheme (7am to 6.30pm Monday to
Friday).
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Source: http://www.cclondon.com/downloads/ResidentsLiving.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cars do not have to slow down in London.<br />
<blockquote>There are fixed and mobile cameras both around the boundary and within the charging zone which capture images of the vehicle registration marks (number plates) that have been used in the zone. These images are matched to the database of payments and exemptions and where no match is found a Penalty Charge Notice is issued to the registered keeper.
</blockquote></p>
<p>Source: <a href='https://tfl-cc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tfl_cc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=D-x-DPni&amp;p_lva=1649&amp;p_faqid=1649&amp;p_created=1121862892&amp;p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTg0JnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9JnBfcHJvZF9sdmwxPTExNSZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&amp;p_li=' rel="nofollow">This awful URL</a></p>
<p>Regarding residents of London:</p>
<blockquote><p>
If you live in the Congestion Charging<br />
zone, you can register one private vehicle<br />
for a 90% discount from the Congestion<br />
Charge. This is known as a â€˜Residentsâ€™<br />
discountâ€™. You must prove that you live<br />
in the Congestion Charging zone and that<br />
you own the vehicle.<br />
The Residentsâ€™ discount is only available<br />
to people who live in properties that are<br />
mainly used for residential purposes and<br />
if this is your main or permanent home.<br />
If you live in the Congestion Charging zone<br />
you can park off the public roads or, if you<br />
have an on-street Residentsâ€™ parking<br />
permit, in a Residentsâ€™ parking bay within<br />
your local parking zone, without paying the<br />
Congestion Charge, as long as you do not<br />
move the vehicle during the hours of the<br />
scheme (7am to 6.30pm Monday to<br />
Friday).
</p></blockquote>
<p>Source: <a href="http://www.cclondon.com/downloads/ResidentsLiving.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cclondon.com/downloads/ResidentsLiving.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13420</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13420</guid>
		<description>Mordecai, thanks for the info on London&#039;s system.  Do the cars have to slow down in order to have the plates photo&#039;d?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mordecai, thanks for the info on London&#8217;s system.  Do the cars have to slow down in order to have the plates photo&#8217;d?</p>
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		<title>By: mfs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13418</link>
		<dc:creator>mfs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13418</guid>
		<description>point taken.  

but expect *some* resistance on the photographing of license plates and the kind of payment system that it&#039;s tied to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>point taken.  </p>
<p>but expect *some* resistance on the photographing of license plates and the kind of payment system that it&#8217;s tied to.</p>
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		<title>By: Mordecai</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13413</link>
		<dc:creator>Mordecai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13413</guid>
		<description>My understanding of the London system is that all plates are photographed at entry points to the congestion pricing zone (not &quot;limited surveillance&quot;) and that you have until midnight of the day that you pass into the zone to pay at a website. Otherwise the car owner is billed with a surcharge.  Zone residents get special permits to drive without paying the charge. No toll booths, no backups, no honor system, no broken EZ passes.  The technology exists and is implemented in a major, cosmopolitan city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding of the London system is that all plates are photographed at entry points to the congestion pricing zone (not &#8220;limited surveillance&#8221;) and that you have until midnight of the day that you pass into the zone to pay at a website. Otherwise the car owner is billed with a surcharge.  Zone residents get special permits to drive without paying the charge. No toll booths, no backups, no honor system, no broken EZ passes.  The technology exists and is implemented in a major, cosmopolitan city.</p>
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		<title>By: someguy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13412</link>
		<dc:creator>someguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13412</guid>
		<description>mfs - London&#039;s scheme has no tollboths whatsoever.  The only difference between them and us is we have the added complexity of out-of-state cars and trucks, whereas the UK probably has one unified license plate system.

I don&#039;t know how gov&#039;t license plate databases work in the US, but I assume NY could have access to other state&#039;s registration data, in which case NY&#039;s scheme could work exactly like London&#039;s -- those not charged with E-ZPass are charged when their license plate is videotapes.  For the few that slip through the cracks, it just needs to be a small enough number that enforcement costs do not substantially detract from the system&#039;s revenues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mfs &#8211; London&#8217;s scheme has no tollboths whatsoever.  The only difference between them and us is we have the added complexity of out-of-state cars and trucks, whereas the UK probably has one unified license plate system.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how gov&#8217;t license plate databases work in the US, but I assume NY could have access to other state&#8217;s registration data, in which case NY&#8217;s scheme could work exactly like London&#8217;s &#8212; those not charged with E-ZPass are charged when their license plate is videotapes.  For the few that slip through the cracks, it just needs to be a small enough number that enforcement costs do not substantially detract from the system&#8217;s revenues.</p>
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		<title>By: mfs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13402</link>
		<dc:creator>mfs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13402</guid>
		<description>as steve said:

&quot;But you have to have some way to charge the guy with the malfunctioning EZ pass, or who forgets the EZ pass or does not have sufficient value left on it, etc., or else that guy blocks everybody.&quot;

I would also submit that you have to accomodate tourists (believe it or not, they really do drive into manhattan-- i don&#039;t know why), the general public, and long-haul delivery trucks.    

It&#039;s probably a very small percentage (less than 2% is my guess), and there probably is a way to do this without toll booths, but I haven&#039;t heard of a feasible version yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as steve said:</p>
<p>&#8220;But you have to have some way to charge the guy with the malfunctioning EZ pass, or who forgets the EZ pass or does not have sufficient value left on it, etc., or else that guy blocks everybody.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would also submit that you have to accomodate tourists (believe it or not, they really do drive into manhattan&#8211; i don&#8217;t know why), the general public, and long-haul delivery trucks.    </p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably a very small percentage (less than 2% is my guess), and there probably is a way to do this without toll booths, but I haven&#8217;t heard of a feasible version yet.</p>
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		<title>By: P</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13395</link>
		<dc:creator>P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13395</guid>
		<description>Why should there be delays, mfs, if there aren&#039;t toll booths?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why should there be delays, mfs, if there aren&#8217;t toll booths?</p>
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		<title>By: mfs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13393</link>
		<dc:creator>mfs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13393</guid>
		<description>and not just north of 59th.  I was actually thinking about the traffic going into downtown brooklyn &amp; LIC.  during the strike it was backed up all the way to south williamsburg on surface streets. not that CG would cause that scale of backup, but it represents where the delays will happen.

looking forward to that RPA study!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and not just north of 59th.  I was actually thinking about the traffic going into downtown brooklyn &amp; LIC.  during the strike it was backed up all the way to south williamsburg on surface streets. not that CG would cause that scale of backup, but it represents where the delays will happen.</p>
<p>looking forward to that RPA study!</p>
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		<title>By: P</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13389</link>
		<dc:creator>P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13389</guid>
		<description>I think the threat of speeding cars cars can be managed by rededicating road space to other uses.  If thousands of fewer cars will be entering Manhattan those drivers will need transportation.  This can come in the form of dedicated bus rapid transit lanes shared by bikes.  In other places sidewalks could get wider if the need for lane space has diminished.  

Emptier streets should be considered an opportunity not a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the threat of speeding cars cars can be managed by rededicating road space to other uses.  If thousands of fewer cars will be entering Manhattan those drivers will need transportation.  This can come in the form of dedicated bus rapid transit lanes shared by bikes.  In other places sidewalks could get wider if the need for lane space has diminished.  </p>
<p>Emptier streets should be considered an opportunity not a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: someguy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13387</link>
		<dc:creator>someguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13387</guid>
		<description>Steve,
I think many of those detailed issues regarding the technology and form of the scheme will be addressed in a forthcoming report from RPA, following up on their 2003 overview study of CP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
I think many of those detailed issues regarding the technology and form of the scheme will be addressed in a forthcoming report from RPA, following up on their 2003 overview study of CP.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13385</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13385</guid>
		<description>I agree with Dave that an EZ-pass system or similar arrangement is definitely the way to go.  But you have to have some way to charge the guy with the malfunctioning EZ pass, or who forgets the EZ pass or does not have sufficient value left on it, etc., or else that guy blocks everybody.  I suppose you can photo that guy&#039;s license plate and charge by mail (with a surcharge), but such a system would have an error rate and still cause delays, which would become focal points for opposition to congestion charging.  Also, my impression is that even the EZ pass alone must be mounted on some type of structure that hangs out into or over traffic in order to work properly.  I have enver seen an EZ-pass-like system that did not  have an arch over the entire roadway. 

I don&#039;t think any of these details are reasons to oppose congestion charging, but I expect these issues will be at the top of the agenda if and when the congestion charging concept gets real legs.  These issues will be raised not only by the auto commuters who have to use the system, but also by the residents of the affected Manhattan neighborhoods who will resent any additional infrastructure or traffic engineering associated with the system (I can already hear the occupants of those homes on Sutton Place in the East 50s with built in garages drawing analogies to Berlin in &#039;61). 

mfs is right that zone-adjacent congestion will be an issue.  During the transit strike a year ago, southbound traffic on Park, Lexington and Second backed up starting at 96th Street for about 5-10 blocks during rush hour.  The question is how much worse the congestion could be in the five blocks north of 59th Street than they were during my commute this morning down the East Side.  Not much, I would say.  Second Avenue is certainly bumpr-to-bumper every morning approaching the bridge.  Lexington is only slightly better through 63rd Street due to all the &quot;holiday traffic mitigation&quot; at Bloomies&#039;.  Park is similar through 62st, where where triple-parking is the rule in front of the Regency. I can&#039;t speak to the impact on the West side.  A comprehensive study of congestion in the five-block swath north of 59th Street and a detailed plan for maintaining or ameliorating it in connection with congestion charging would go a long way to addressing the invetable objections of those living near the dividing line.

ddartley may be right that speeding would increase due a reduction in congestion within the zone, not only because speeding would become possible but because self-righteous drivers, having paid to get in, may feel entitled to do whatever they want.  Offsetting this effect would be the heightened surveillance associated with congestion charging, and the fact that the copes could do a better job of policing less congested roadways.  Also, I would anticipate  increased aggressiveness of pedestrians and bicyclists who can be every bit as aggressive as drivers in taking over unoccupied roadway.  The sum of the roadway encroachments by pedestrians and bicyclists in the post-CG world (along with the fact that drivers &quot;lost&quot; to the CG issue) may bring on a paradigm shift in which dangerous driving is called out more often by cops and civilians.  Wishful thinking, I know, but possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Dave that an EZ-pass system or similar arrangement is definitely the way to go.  But you have to have some way to charge the guy with the malfunctioning EZ pass, or who forgets the EZ pass or does not have sufficient value left on it, etc., or else that guy blocks everybody.  I suppose you can photo that guy&#8217;s license plate and charge by mail (with a surcharge), but such a system would have an error rate and still cause delays, which would become focal points for opposition to congestion charging.  Also, my impression is that even the EZ pass alone must be mounted on some type of structure that hangs out into or over traffic in order to work properly.  I have enver seen an EZ-pass-like system that did not  have an arch over the entire roadway. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any of these details are reasons to oppose congestion charging, but I expect these issues will be at the top of the agenda if and when the congestion charging concept gets real legs.  These issues will be raised not only by the auto commuters who have to use the system, but also by the residents of the affected Manhattan neighborhoods who will resent any additional infrastructure or traffic engineering associated with the system (I can already hear the occupants of those homes on Sutton Place in the East 50s with built in garages drawing analogies to Berlin in &#8217;61). </p>
<p>mfs is right that zone-adjacent congestion will be an issue.  During the transit strike a year ago, southbound traffic on Park, Lexington and Second backed up starting at 96th Street for about 5-10 blocks during rush hour.  The question is how much worse the congestion could be in the five blocks north of 59th Street than they were during my commute this morning down the East Side.  Not much, I would say.  Second Avenue is certainly bumpr-to-bumper every morning approaching the bridge.  Lexington is only slightly better through 63rd Street due to all the &#8220;holiday traffic mitigation&#8221; at Bloomies&#8217;.  Park is similar through 62st, where where triple-parking is the rule in front of the Regency. I can&#8217;t speak to the impact on the West side.  A comprehensive study of congestion in the five-block swath north of 59th Street and a detailed plan for maintaining or ameliorating it in connection with congestion charging would go a long way to addressing the invetable objections of those living near the dividing line.</p>
<p>ddartley may be right that speeding would increase due a reduction in congestion within the zone, not only because speeding would become possible but because self-righteous drivers, having paid to get in, may feel entitled to do whatever they want.  Offsetting this effect would be the heightened surveillance associated with congestion charging, and the fact that the copes could do a better job of policing less congested roadways.  Also, I would anticipate  increased aggressiveness of pedestrians and bicyclists who can be every bit as aggressive as drivers in taking over unoccupied roadway.  The sum of the roadway encroachments by pedestrians and bicyclists in the post-CG world (along with the fact that drivers &#8220;lost&#8221; to the CG issue) may bring on a paradigm shift in which dangerous driving is called out more often by cops and civilians.  Wishful thinking, I know, but possible.</p>
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		<title>By: steveo</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13378</link>
		<dc:creator>steveo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13378</guid>
		<description>Charles Komanoff of the Bridge Tolls Advocacy Project addressed the economic concerns of tolling just the East River crossings below 60th St. (which is largely relevant in the case of congestion pricing everywhere below 60th St.).

Among other things he found that &quot;East River bridge commuters earn, on average, $14,300 a year more than their neighbors who don&#039;t commute on those bridges&quot;

The complete study (&quot;East River Bridge Tolls: Who Will Really Pay?&quot;) is at 
http://bridgetolls.org/research/#wwp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles Komanoff of the Bridge Tolls Advocacy Project addressed the economic concerns of tolling just the East River crossings below 60th St. (which is largely relevant in the case of congestion pricing everywhere below 60th St.).</p>
<p>Among other things he found that &#8220;East River bridge commuters earn, on average, $14,300 a year more than their neighbors who don&#8217;t commute on those bridges&#8221;</p>
<p>The complete study (&#8220;East River Bridge Tolls: Who Will Really Pay?&#8221;) is at<br />
<a href="http://bridgetolls.org/research/#wwp" rel="nofollow">http://bridgetolls.org/research/#wwp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ethan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13377</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13377</guid>
		<description>Much of the conversation about congestion pricing is as if it is an end in itself, just a way to charge for congestion.  It really is a means to an end, and we need to better sell it as such.

Will traffic relief may be a good impetus for looking at this issue, sold to the public as just traffic relief, is never going to be a compelling enough vision and will only get us so far even if accepted.  London, for instance, combined their congestion pricing with their â€œ100 Public Spacesâ€ program.

Congestion pricing needs to be looked at as a very necessary tool, as part of a larger vision for creating great streets, improved access and safety for all modes, a more efficient and equitable transportation system and maintaining and increasing NYCâ€™s competitiveness in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of the conversation about congestion pricing is as if it is an end in itself, just a way to charge for congestion.  It really is a means to an end, and we need to better sell it as such.</p>
<p>Will traffic relief may be a good impetus for looking at this issue, sold to the public as just traffic relief, is never going to be a compelling enough vision and will only get us so far even if accepted.  London, for instance, combined their congestion pricing with their â€œ100 Public Spacesâ€ program.</p>
<p>Congestion pricing needs to be looked at as a very necessary tool, as part of a larger vision for creating great streets, improved access and safety for all modes, a more efficient and equitable transportation system and maintaining and increasing NYCâ€™s competitiveness in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13369</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/27/new-yorkers-receptive-to-a-congestion-reduction-charge/#comment-13369</guid>
		<description>What is this talk of tollbooths?  All you need are EZ-Pass readers on the bridges and whatever entry point you determine (I personally think it should be all of Manhattan: can you imagine what street parking will be like just outside of the congestion zone....unless you implement permit parkign hand-in-hand) so there is no need for physical structures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is this talk of tollbooths?  All you need are EZ-Pass readers on the bridges and whatever entry point you determine (I personally think it should be all of Manhattan: can you imagine what street parking will be like just outside of the congestion zone&#8230;.unless you implement permit parkign hand-in-hand) so there is no need for physical structures.</p>
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