Comments on: Reverse Engineering Pedestrian Safety in Boerum Hill http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: mick http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-26248 mick Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:07:41 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-26248 pedestrian crossing: a new way to be respected: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRFVSIQJ7Y pedestrian crossing: a new way to be respected:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRFVSIQJ7Y

]]> By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-17265 JK Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:25:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-17265 DOT hates installing traffic lights and is notorious in community board circles for taking its time. I bet a case of beer that the community board or councilmember made it a crusade and petitioned DOT to do it. This is one of the areas of common cause between pedestrian advocates and DOT. Unfortunately, DOT does a poor job of educating the public about the disadvantages of traffic signals. DOT hates installing traffic lights and is notorious in community board circles for taking its time. I bet a case of beer that the community board or councilmember made it a crusade and petitioned DOT to do it. This is one of the areas of common cause between pedestrian advocates and DOT. Unfortunately, DOT does a poor job of educating the public about the disadvantages of traffic signals.

]]> By: Joel Potischman http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-17155 Joel Potischman Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:54:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-17155 I've heard that DOT policy is to always install traffic lights now, not 4-way stop signs. We had been begging for 4-way stop signs at the corner of Hoyt & State for years (there were at least a few accidents a year) and they gave us a traffic light instead. It did take us a while to adjust to the fact that cars go faster now, but to my knowledge there hasn't been an accident since they installed it. Yes, that doesn't say how a 4-way stop sign would have performed, but at least the traffic light did solve our problem, so hopefully it solves yours. I've heard that DOT policy is to always install traffic lights now, not 4-way stop signs. We had been begging for 4-way stop signs at the corner of Hoyt & State for years (there were at least a few accidents a year) and they gave us a traffic light instead.

It did take us a while to adjust to the fact that cars go faster now, but to my knowledge there hasn't been an accident since they installed it. Yes, that doesn't say how a 4-way stop sign would have performed, but at least the traffic light did solve our problem, so hopefully it solves yours.

]]> By: Nicolo Macchiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10659 Nicolo Macchiavelli Thu, 09 Nov 2006 02:14:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10659 The lights aren't necessary. They increase maximum vehicle speed and decrease average speed. Mathematical formula for disaster. Entirely unfit for urban life. I live on 3rd St. and fully expect that our beloved four way stop sign will be replaced by a light when the heavy expected traffic from the Hole Foods begins. This morning two heavily armed pickup trucks blew through the red light at the other end of the block (next to the subway stop). Enforcement, enforcement enforcement. The lights aren't necessary. They increase maximum vehicle speed and decrease average speed. Mathematical formula for disaster. Entirely unfit for urban life. I live on 3rd St. and fully expect that our beloved four way stop sign will be replaced by a light when the heavy expected traffic from the Hole Foods begins. This morning two heavily armed pickup trucks blew through the red light at the other end of the block (next to the subway stop). Enforcement, enforcement enforcement.

]]> By: Rising Crane http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10560 Rising Crane Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:57:25 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10560 I love the traffic light at Wyckoff and Smith Streets (the other ones i could do without, but don't bother me) I’ve driven through this intersection for over 15 yrs and during rush hour it was impossible to cross Smith st, since no one respected the box when they couldn’t go forward, now we all get a turn... may be if people were more considered of one another the lights wouldn't be necessary, but... I love the traffic light at Wyckoff and Smith Streets (the other ones i could do without, but don't bother me) I’ve driven through this intersection for over 15 yrs and during rush hour it was impossible to cross Smith st, since no one respected the box when they couldn’t go forward, now we all get a turn... may be if people were more considered of one another the lights wouldn't be necessary, but...

]]> By: someguy http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10521 someguy Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:45:37 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10521 May be they are adding the lights in anticipation of mitigations related to Atlantic Yards? Hard to say why they suddenly seem to be blitzing Boerum/Cobble Hill with lights where there were stops. DOT undertakes planning projects sometimes that result in actions, but they are not big plans so they aren't publicized, they are more just small operational planning projects to try to "optimize" the system. May be they are adding the lights in anticipation of mitigations related to Atlantic Yards? Hard to say why they suddenly seem to be blitzing Boerum/Cobble Hill with lights where there were stops. DOT undertakes planning projects sometimes that result in actions, but they are not big plans so they aren't publicized, they are more just small operational planning projects to try to "optimize" the system.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10395 Glenn Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:22:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10395 Land - the only thing worse than a red light is when they see a green light but traffic is not moving. That is when the honking is at it's absolute worst!!! DOT - any comments on this? What section and paragraph of the federal guidelines did this get pulled out of? Land - the only thing worse than a red light is when they see a green light but traffic is not moving. That is when the honking is at it's absolute worst!!!

DOT - any comments on this? What section and paragraph of the federal guidelines did this get pulled out of?

]]> By: land http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10382 land Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:29:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10382 P.S. San Francisco functions perfectly will with hundreds of four-way-stop sign intersections on all but the busiest streets. Just FYI. P.S. San Francisco functions perfectly will with hundreds of four-way-stop sign intersections on all but the busiest streets. Just FYI.

]]> By: land http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10379 land Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:27:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10379 They just did the same thing on my corner -- Smith St and Wyckoff St. The light has been up for about a week and the traffic, and honking, and idling trucks, are MUCH MUCH more annoying now. It seems that drivers get angry when they see a red light in front of them. The old stop sign worked perfectly well. There wasn't a lot of traffic before the light, but now the volume is growing fast. They just did the same thing on my corner -- Smith St and Wyckoff St. The light has been up for about a week and the traffic, and honking, and idling trucks, are MUCH MUCH more annoying now. It seems that drivers get angry when they see a red light in front of them. The old stop sign worked perfectly well. There wasn't a lot of traffic before the light, but now the volume is growing fast.

]]> By: mfs http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10375 mfs Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:19:54 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10375 i bet glenn is right. traffic lights are usually mandated when traffic exceeds a particular rate at intersections. i bet glenn is right. traffic lights are usually mandated when traffic exceeds a particular rate at intersections.

]]> By: Frank http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10373 Frank Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:15:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10373 I would bet that there is a contract out there for Petrocelli to install x number of traffic lights, so they go and find spots to put traffic lights. Or something like that. I would bet that there is a contract out there for Petrocelli to install x number of traffic lights, so they go and find spots to put traffic lights. Or something like that.

]]> By: Nick http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10372 Nick Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:10:23 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10372 I've also heard that the cost of a new traffic light (they recently put one in on my corner - Pacific & Hoyt) is $40,000. Can anyone verify that? Andy, I couldn't agree more. However, I know a lot of people who think that stop signs are kind of scary. When I was in college, the campus was covered with 4-way stop intersections, and drivers were always screwing up the right-of-way. But it's the extra thought required that makes it a more humane approach. I've also heard that the cost of a new traffic light (they recently put one in on my corner - Pacific & Hoyt) is $40,000. Can anyone verify that?

Andy, I couldn't agree more. However, I know a lot of people who think that stop signs are kind of scary. When I was in college, the campus was covered with 4-way stop intersections, and drivers were always screwing up the right-of-way. But it's the extra thought required that makes it a more humane approach.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10368 Glenn Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:57:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10368 My only guess is that they did a traffic count and decided it finally met the Federal minimum threshold or something. I know lots of drivers that go to great lengths to avoid lights because you have to wait so long if you just miss it. And they prefer stop signs because at least you keep moving a bit. I can never figure it out, but even if something is slower, people would rather be in constant motion than stop and go. Nothing is more frustrating it seems than to be completely motionless fro just a second. It's the same with pedestrians and cyclists and mass transit riders. There must be some universal human drive to always be in forward motion. My only guess is that they did a traffic count and decided it finally met the Federal minimum threshold or something. I know lots of drivers that go to great lengths to avoid lights because you have to wait so long if you just miss it. And they prefer stop signs because at least you keep moving a bit.

I can never figure it out, but even if something is slower, people would rather be in constant motion than stop and go. Nothing is more frustrating it seems than to be completely motionless fro just a second. It's the same with pedestrians and cyclists and mass transit riders. There must be some universal human drive to always be in forward motion.

]]> By: someguy http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10367 someguy Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:55:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10367 DOT's website is awful. If only it were half as informative and user-friendly as the Department of City Planning's. I don't think that information is available, ddartley, as it's not required by law AFAIK.. DOT's website is awful. If only it were half as informative and user-friendly as the Department of City Planning's. I don't think that information is available, ddartley, as it's not required by law AFAIK..

]]> By: P http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10360 P Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:51:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10360 Indeed- traffic lights are to make car speeds increase not to slow them down. Indeed- traffic lights are to make car speeds increase not to slow them down.

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/comment-page-1/#comment-10357 ddartley Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:45:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/reverse-engineering-safety-in-boerum-hill/#comment-10357 Is there any place where information like what you're seeking about the who/why/when in that case is made public? Like, is there some part of the DOT's web site where people can search for/read about planned projects? There certainly should be, don't you all think? Is there any place where information like what you're seeking about the who/why/when in that case is made public? Like, is there some part of the DOT's web site where people can search for/read about planned projects? There certainly should be, don't you all think?

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